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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 200043mf t not approved MINUTES OF THE RULES COiNEM11TEE MONDAY, DECE51BER 4. 2000 b:00 p.m. ALDERMANIC LIBRARY - Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Stephen Engelman, Gene Mdman, Edmund Moran, Art Ne«-nian & Ann Rainey ... Presiding: Alderman Ann Rainey Absent: Aldermen Dennis Drummer, Joe Rent & Melissa W1nne . Staff Present: Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno & :hark Franz Guest: Bob Atkins, Beth Demes, Judy Fiske, Lynne Heidt, James McWilliams, Mary McWilliams, Lorraine H. Morton & Bob Seidenberg, CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Rainey called the meeting to order at 6:14 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE MIlVi3TES OF OCTOBER 2. 2000: Aid. Newman moved for approval of the October 2, 2000 minutes. Aid. Bernstein seconded. Minutes approved. REVIEW OF ETHICS ORDINANCE: The Legal Department provided the committee with two documents. One regarding "Ethics Code Violation Not a Basis to Remove an Elected Official from Office". The committee agreed to accept this document as a communication. Aid. Rainey opened the floor for discussion on the second document regarding "Notice to Alleged Violator of Board of Ethics Inquiry". Aid. Newman stated that he thought the Legal Department had begun to address this issue. His greatest concern was the fact that complaints could be made to the Ethics Board and people could appear at the Ethics Board without the accused knowing about the meeting. And to the extent that the new language gives immediate notice to anybody accused, they are beginning to make progress towards dealing with the situation. Aid. Newman underscored how important this was. The latest complaint before the Ethics Board was outrageous and the whole conduct in the way it was handled was an embarrassment to the City. Not by the Board, but the fact that it got referred, the fact that the accuser didn't show up, the fact that it created a lot of aggravation for somebody in the community. His concern was that no testimony be taken by the Ethics Board until they have given notice, given the accused an opportunity to respond and the Board has made a determination that the complaint in fact alleges a violation and has jurisdiction. W Draft not apprawed Aid. Rainey said when she made the motion to rt'tluire 24-hour notice to the accused from the time that the accusation was made to thr Ethics Board, she meant that was a practical correction, but she had no problem with the two business days. What she also intended was that the exact piece of paper or the exact complaint be transmitted to the accused. Not a 24-hour notice that there has been a complaint lodged against someone because of thus and so, but the exact complaint. In addition the person who files the complaint needs to be revealed to the accused. She wanted to know if there was a legal problem with that. She added that they had never received the reports from the Ethics Board on what cases they've had before them from the past 6 months or the past year - Aid. Engelman thought it was good they were giving the accused notice and -that it was about time. Aid. Bernstein said he thought Aid. Rainey's idea was a good one with respect to getting a copy of the complaint, which should show the accuser's name. He stated that the Board should take no action whatsoever until such time as they review both, outside the presence of any parties. What they do now is bring in the accuser initially and question them. They are only getting one side of the story. Aid. Rainey said on the business notification to the so-called accused, 24-hour notice, plus the complaint, they can't protect the accused. Because the complainant has the opportunity and the freedom to give their complaint to the Evanston Recdew, Evanston Roundtable, or the Daily Norrhwestern and whoever else, before they give their complaint to the Ethics Board. Aid. Bernstein said he recalled the story that ran in the Evanston Review about Ms. Heidi. There was at least some confir nation by the Ethics Board. He did not think they should have the ability to open their n ouths about anything until after the initial meeting which should include a review of both. Aid. Engelman said he didn't think there was a confirmation. They didn't find probable cause. Aid. Bernstein said they confirmed that a complaint was filed and they were going to be hearing it. That is enough sometimes. Aid. Engelman asked if the agenda of the Ethics Board was a matter of public record? Ald. Rainey said she had never seen it. Aid. Newman said he wanted to add two points to the document that Ms. Szymanski prepared. One being that no testimony will be taken by the Board until notice has been served on the accused and the accused has had the opportunity to respond. The other being that no testimony will be taken until the Board has determined a violation has been alleged and the Board has determined that it has jurisdiction. The reason being was because of what happened in the case referred regarding Ms. Heidt. Ms. Heidt had to consult an attorney and go to an expense in terms of time and aggravation. if the Board first has to go through a process of serving notice and getting a response, then they can determine, prior to a hearing time, whether it has jurisdiction over the person. And whether there is a violation, then the person who is accused will be spared perhaps with 2 K Draft not anmwed having to get an attorney. The way it is right now you have to start getting ready fir di►.- hearing because there really is no process that anybody understantis. Ald. Moran said one thing chat struck him, which %ear consistent with what Aid. Newman said, there was noshing really to control the inflow of complaints. It was the same as lawsuits, anybody who can write something on a piece of pager can go to a cuum house, walk into the clerk's office, denominate that pa:gcr, a complaint against someone: and file it. That does not mean anything of consequence is going to come from that. It may be frivolous and may be completely out or order, et-t. That also can happea in the intense of citizens fling or people in general filing ethic complaints before the City and being referred to the Ethics Board. He thought there %vas something in the ordinance that controls the Ethics Board that says they do have to make some preliminary determination. That what they have in front of them states a set of facts that would beat violation of the Ethics ordinance. Aid. Moran said if it is nor clear now in the Ethics ordinance, there should be some statement in there to the effect that the Ethics Board should meet to review a complaint and make a determination that things have some facial merit or not. If it does not, the ordinance should direct them to say they are not going to entertain this any further. If it does then all the things that have been talked about, sending notice to the alleged violator, etc., etc., all that stuff should happen. He even thought that it might, and he emphasized might, be a good idea to suggest that the Ethics Board make that primary, that initial determination in conference. The reason being is that when it becomes public that there is a compliant, and sometimes that complaint is going no where, it doesn't say violation of the Ethics ordinance, it really is a inconsequential thing that nobody should be wasting their time on. If that is the case, why Iet the alleged violator and everybody else who gets worked up about this stuff, bother with it. It was said before, the person is going to run out and hire a lawyer and get ready for a hearing, etc. and maybe there isn't going to be a hearing. Maybe nothing is going to happen, other than the Ethics Board looking at it and saying this isn't worth the paper it is written on, end of case. Aid. Newman agreed with AI-J. Moran except for the problem that somebody can make an ethics complaint and it is sent to the Board. That person can call up the City and ask when the board is going to meet and that person who makes the complaint can be there pushing the complaint. Aid. Moran said that was correct but what he was saying uw change it. Change it so that you don't have anybody there_ The first thing they do is look at the complaint and determine whether it equals anyone. Aid. Rainey commented that provided for in the ordinance, it is an advisory opinion. They meet and determine whether or not an advisory opinion is warranted or whether an investigation is warranted or the request for an advisory opinion has merit. Then make a determination about a hearing. 3 .J Drof t not opprcwcd )c Aid. Newman said he did not disagree with what Aid. Morrn sari about pmssibly ni"dmg in private. His concern was that a complaint could be sent tt. thr �zonxmittcc and then the committee has a meeting at one of its regular meeting times and the prc)i\inent lit t£ar complaint can be present. If they are going to do something; like that then what they would have to say is before they place it on their agenda, they will make their own determination whether or not the written complaint has jurisdiction over the person anJ whether there is substance to the alleged violation. Aid. Feldman asked whether it would be private or public? Aid. Moran said he didn't know what was best. But if the Ethics Board goes into executive sc-Ron one possible benefit is that the broad publication, people feeling they have to respond, hire lawy-ets, etc. all the rest is suppressed with the idea that it might very well be that after that one meeting it is done. So when they walk out of the room at that point, no one can say there is some pending complaint against such and such a person before the Ethics Board of the City because there won't be. If there will be then it becomes public. If they say it is not worthy, if it is not meritorious it is over. Mr. Atkins, an attorney and resident of Evanston said he represented the respondent in the last couple of ethics hearings and felt change was necessary. The procedure was seriously flawed. What appeared dear to him was that any letter whatsoever, from any citizens in Evanston, immediately goes through the Corporation Counsel office, and then immediately to the Ethics Board. Or they may write directly to the Ethics Board. There is no interface whatsoever with the Corporation Counsel making any kind of a determination, ascertainment or anything else. Once that process starts the Ethics Board has it and that is the problem being discussed. Because what happens is the complainant is there, the Ethics Board is there and the complainant talks and they may go into executive session. What comes out of that is they are going to hold a meeting in the future to determine whether they should go on. By already setting a meeting in the fixture and talking to the complainant, it is already out that this complaint is a serious complaint. They can label it anything that they Kant. Mr. Atkins said the last case with Ms. Heidt was a case in point where they finally summons her after the complaint was made. The Board said they were going to have a hearing. They had not determined any of the merits and were going to hold this hearing to see whether there was something there for us to go to the next step. Ms. Heidt, Ms. Fiske and himself appeared up until that time and others had sent materials to the Corporation Counsel's office and probably to the Board. Basically shooing that Ms. Heidt was not on the Preservation Commission when all of these aIIegations took place. So consequently they would have no jurisdiction. He said at the meeting he had materials and suggested to the Chair that he wanted to submit those materials. The Board voted 2 to I that there was merit for them to look forward and obtain information. He stated that the legal officers of the City of Evanston don't do anything without the Board telling them to do anything. The legal department should determine in the first 4 x Draft riot approved instances, whether or not there is any merit whatsoever in the letter that comes through the transit. And determine whether or not they should go fom- rd with the matter. It would take 10 minutes for Corporation Counsel to close a case right away and make a report to the Ethics Board that there is no jurisdiction for the following reasons. The previous cases were not done this way because of the process, procedure, the ambiguities and the fact that the Board did not know what they were doing caused problems. Aid. Bernstein said Fie had some problem with that. Referring to the initial observer, Corporation Counsel, which he didn't necessarily want to place that on any lawyers head, but the committee meeting in executive session makes a determination. Not on the merits but if in fact all the allegations contained are sufficient to warrant, then send it along. Mr. Atkins said you couldn't tell on the surface of the complaint whether there was jurisdiction without making an inquiry. Ald. Bernstein said if the complaint says they alleged that a commissioner was improperly using her office to review or modify a boarder of a landmark district. On its face if those allegations could be proven as true he would submit that would be a violation of the ethics ordinance. What he is suggesting is that if all of those allegation taken as true, he would think that the committee could get together and say she was a commissioner and if there was this chance in the boarder, that would give rise to an allegation. He did not really want anybody, any complainant, before this body without somebody present who has access to the complaint before this thing happens and who has a chance to respond. If you move along to that point it is pretty much over. You've already created the same problem being discussed now. Aid. Bernstein further concurred with what Aid. Moran said that somebody in executive session should make a determination if these things are correct. There should be an initial determination. Ms. Heidt said she wanted to translate all of this into a time frame so the committee really knew what went on. First of all if she had done what she was accused of, whether or not she was on the commission at the time, she not only should have been thrown off the commission, she should have had her real estate license revoked. It was an incredibly serious complaint and went to the heart of the way she cams her living. She said the complaint apparently must have come in June when the Mayor vetoed the ordinance, because that was one bases of the veto. Mayor Morton stated that she knew absolutely nothing about it. Ms. Heidt continued stating that the letter of complaint against her was dated in July, which was about a month after the Mayor vetoed the ordinance. She learned about the complaint at a street fair in late August. In September she got a letter from Ms. Szymanski telling her that there was a complaint against her with a copy of the complaint and notice that there was going to be a hearing. The night before the hearing she was told the hearing was moved to October. In October a lot of evidence that showed she had nothing to do with this was not only given to Ms. Szymanski, it was given in 5 �r Draft not approve duplicates so that every single member of the Ethics Board could lime n cti-py. It was not distributed to the members of that committee. The Board voted 2 to I to further investigate. Finally, in November the complaint a-t heard. C-hi the day of the hearing at noon Ms. Szymanski finally let them have 400 pages of itnestignion stuff on this. It turned out that it was a copy of the Presmation herrings, it %vas a farce. Thnt is what you need to address. Aid. Rainey said the time issue was the firm thing they dealt with. It has to be 2-business day and that will resolve notice of the compiaint. Ms. McWilliams said one of the problems at the October meeting %kas that one of the Board members said he could not make a determination of whether there ►vas sufficient information. There was not sufficient information in the complaint itself and there was not sufficient information to determine whether they should move forward or whether they should drop the whole thing. So part of the problem is in the language of the accusation. Aid. Rainey said they probably could not do anything about that. Ms. Fiske said besides Ms. Heidt's case there was her own case and Ms. McWilliams' case. They were clearly volunteers and not on the Preservation Commission. The similarities between their case and Ms. Heidt's case was that there was ample evidence that they were not Preservation Commissioners, just as there n-as ample evidence that Ms. Heidt was not on the Commission at any time the historic district ►vas being planned or consulted on. Her concern was a Iittle bit different than Ms. Heidt's. What was happening in their case were two things. First of all the Evanstonians for Responsible Preservation were inclined to punish them. They admitted that to her at the last Ethics Board meeting before the last one. The other thing that concerned her was public policy and as Mr. Atkins referenced to the Mayor's veto. When they first learned about the charges made against them it was after there had already been an Ethics Board meeting. The person making the complaint had been invited and had brought their supporters and had made their case to the Ethics Board and she and Ms. McWilliams knew nothing about it at all. She stated that those who make policies and laws of the city have to be very, very sensitive about that. Mayor Morton said she only had one letter come to her asking that something be sent to the Ethics Board, which was the one that was sent. It was given to the legal department. After it got out of her hand she had absolutely nothing at all to do with it. It was not that a letter came and said this was wrong, that was wrong and then a decision was made by the attorney to send it to the Ethics Board. The correspondent itself made that request. That needs to be kept in mind. Aid. Engelman said he thought it was absolutely essential and thought that they all agreed that notice should be given immediately upon a complaint being submitted. There can be no way that they can prescribe how the complaint is set up, because they will get citizens who will send letters. This is what they do and they have a right to do it. He did think it was important that the complaint be discussed publicly and not privately by the x Draft not approved Board and not by Corporatist Counsel. The rmon it should be done publicly is because - the complainant is going to get it out in public if that is what he or she is really after. Yana are better off having it puHicly discu&,.ci and he would rather not have it at the Corporation Counsel office because that is to someone saying, this is being politically done because the-; have control cK the administration art3 the staff. That is why he thought that notice and an initial dcc-er unction in public by the Ethics Commission as to whether or not this states a hales upon which an investigation is warranted. Which is what thc}'ve already as the appropriate way to do ir. The only thing that needs to be added is the notice pmvuion. Aid. Feldman said he thought the Ethics Berard should get solid information; investigate immediately upon the presentation of a letter and a recommendation on the part of their investigating officer on why it either should or should not carry on. That is a solid bases to either go forward or not. In the meantime, it is not a complaint that has been made, but it has not been before the Ethics Board and there is an interface, a standard by which those complaints must have. It is one thing to say every citizen is entitled, but not every citizen is entitled to automatically, clearly, without any kind of bases whatsoever, smear someone publicly. Aid. Engelman said they are. Aid. Feldman said but they should not add authenticity or validity to that because of their system. An investigating officer getting all of the complaints would have found that out immediately that she Wasn't even on there, would have brought to the face that this is what they've got, this is the information, it is clear it is without jurisdiction. And that would get an investigating officer on it, right away, as opposed to going before the Ethics Board and having them decide to a further mass of information or not. That is one kind of hurdle, in essence, that a complainant has to go through, and it is a protection of the accused, because some information, as part of that investigation the accused is contacted. Information is gotten on both sides and then the case is presented. Ald. Newman said the point is what are we going to do to protect reputations of people who volunteer. Nobody is saying that the entire process should be private. An initial determination and an executive session where it is not a public meeting, whether there is a covered person and there is merit, and he thought that Corporation Counsel could insist on pointing out to the Board, is this person covered and what part of the ordinance. If they did that and then that report was reported publicly he did not have a problem with it. They are either going to find no finding, or they are going to say there is merit and there ought to be a hearing. He would like to have something built in the ordinance where there would be an initial examination, perhaps with the Corporation Counsel's assistance in identifying things that would not be in public. He would like to suggest that they follow-up on notice but also follow-up on an initial determination of covered person and subjects be made in executive session. 7 x ( rmf t not approved Aid. Rainey said when you boil these two cages down, they bath could have ik-rn ended by the use of common sense, by a Corporari�m Counsel making pho;ie malls. One in the case of Ms. McWilliam and Ms. Fiske ate one in the case of \ls. Heidt. By Corporation Counsel calling another department and asking u-cre these two m1ple members of this Board during this period of time, yes or no. But it didn't happcn that wZ.Y and she did not know to what extremes they could go to protect against [vtiplc not using common sense. Aid. Rainey asked that Mr. Franz get the additional changes to this ordinance on the 2- day notice. Aid. Moran added and the initial review. Mayor Morton said for the Liquor Commission, if someone goes out and they find that there is a restaurant that is violated, the proper procedure is they must write up the complaint, have it notarized, before they send it to the liquor commissioner. if people who make allegations were forced when they make that allegation to send in supporting evidence, notarized evidence it would eliminate a lot of these problems. Aid. Engelman stated that you can't control the letter writing. Mayor Morton stated that if you set up an ordinance you could, like it was done with the Liquor Commissioner. Aid. Neuman said he would like to have the ordinance amended that the Ethics Board shall not take testimony until the Board has determined a violation. Aid. Rainey said and jurisdiction. AId. Newman continued saying and has been alleged and the Board is to determine that the person who the allegation was made against, is a covered person and that determination should be made in executive session. If there is a report of a finding after they've made that determination which took place in executive session, can be reported in public. Mr. Crum asked on the jurisdiction issue, is this person covered. He thought that could be handles as an initial step, it is either a yes or no. Aid. Rainey said she thought it was. Mr. Crum said that was not the correct process, but one could be done either by process or by ordinance saying that the Corporation Counsel shall review to determine does this person come under the ordinance. Aid. Rainey agreed. Aid. Moran said he thought it should go to the Ethics Board and they should request that Corporation Counsel come in and advise.. Ald. Rainey said what she thought was that the Ethics Board was out of control. They are not following any rules or regulations or anything. The Rules Committee is trying to fix that now. When these changes come back it will be made clear. However, she thought the City Manager was right. They could resolve a lot of these problems, common every day ordinary citizens can not be held accountable by the Ethics ordinance. And on no other level, on that level alone, Corporation Counsel should have the authority to say, 8 Draft not approved this person was under the jurisdiction, right then. Ald. Newman said it is ultimately the responsibility of the Board. Aid. Rainey said then the Board has to accept that. Aid. Engelman said common ordinary everyday citizens are not subject to jurisdiction. People who volunteer and sit on boards and commission who are like those who are elected are also to some extent public figures. He appreciated the fact that they get paid, and they run for election. Volunteers do submit their names for appointment. Volunteers are as much like elected officials as they are equally like private citizens. But with regards to having a determination as to whether or not the complaint warrants future investigation or states the cause of action, or alleges a violation, he did nor think it should be done by the Corporation Counsel. The Board of Ethics should only do ir. Yet. he did not believe it should be done in executive session because if you announce it afterwards, you have hidden from the public the reasoning why. He feels that if you are going to make the ultimate result public, then the process public should be public. Aid. Newman said that was not the ultimate result that he was suggesting. He eras suggesting they do an initial determination and if it is unfounded, it is announced. But if there is a finding that there is an alleged violation of a covered person, it is only the beginning where the then accused will then have a later opportunity to be heard. Ald. Engelman said if it is being used for political purpose it will be public, because if it is being used for political purposes the only way it gets political, the only way it has an impact as a political purpose, is by making it public. Aid. Rainey said she would like to see the changes they've recommended to come back to them. Aid. Newman said he was not clear on the recommendation. Aid. Engelman suggested that Aid. Newman put his suggestions down on paper, bring them back to the next meeting and they would vote on each one separately. Aid. Newman agreed. Aid. Rainey requested that the Rules Committee get an annual report from the last year from the Ethics Board. Aid. Bernstein added that he would like to get minutes on these two cases. He stated that John Chatz, Chair of the Board of Ethics was suppose to provide this information for them two months ago. NEGOTIATING TEAM COMMITTEE REPORT. Aid. Rainey said the Negotiating Team had received a letter, in response to a letter she had sent, that President Benion was able to meet with two members of the Team. She had written him a letter indicating that they would meet in private in order to get the discussions underway with a list of dates. She requested that the group say yes or no that they were willing to meet and who would like to meet. She had gotten very negative feedback, but thought if they were going to go forward, they needed to take this step. a Drift not npPraWed Ald: Bernstein said he didn't know if they were authorized to meet in pri%ate. The committee initially gave them the ability to meet three from the team and tci meet in public. That is the threshold to decide on, ivhether or not the Rules Commitm or the Council is going to allow that_ Aid. Newman said whether and how they meet should be made b+�, the entire Council. Aid. Rainey asked for a motion to recommend consideration of this by the Council. ALL Newman moved. Aid. Feldman seconded. Motion carried. Ald: Rainey said she, was feeling really disturbed that this was getting so close to Aldermanic elections. She really hoped that they could get into this before then. Aid. Feldman thought that one of the discussions that the Council had to consider was whether or not there was any change at all by the vehement attack on the City Council and its history by Northwestern and its public relations and lawsuit. He asked if that made any difference at all? Aid. Rainey said it did not make any difference to her, she was willing to talk with them. Ms. Heidt asked when would be the next meeting discussing the Ethics Committee. The response was Jan 2. ADTOURNMENT: Meeting was adjourned at 7:14 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francellno 10 k r R E rmft not opprawed MINUTES OF THE MULES COMMIT -FEE MONDAY, OCTOBER 2, 2000 6:00 pail. ALDERMANIC LIBRARY Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Gene Feldman, Edmund Moran, Art Newman & Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Ann Rainey Absents Aldermen Dennis Drummer, Stephen Engelman, Joe Kent & Melissa Wynne Staff Present: Judy Aiello, Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Fruncellno & Mark Franz Guest: Mary Gavin, Evanston Roundtable CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Rainey coed the meeting to order at 6:20 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF AUGUST 7, 2000: Minutes were approved. METHODS IN WHICH TO SHORTEN COUNCIL MEETINGS: Aid. Moran stated that the five-minute rule seem to be working. Aid. Newman felt the five-minute rule had little to do with why they were getting out early, it %-as the nature of the agenda. One suggestion he had was the Executive Sessions should not go pass 7:00 p.m. The other was insufficient information from the staff to the Council. The best example was the other night on the Handler situation, There was not information in the packer a::d a halt" -hour was spent talking about information that %%as not in the packet. Another example was the Township issue, two and half hours were spent getting information out of the finance director on what the implications were going to be on all the different scenarios. Aid. Rainey stated that some issues require a lot of discussion. Ald. Moran's observation was that a lot of times their meetings go very long because Council =aes on a divergence from the agenda. Particular items on the agenda gets Council thinking about something else that they have been interested in. Or they've been reading about or it might be a point of interest, concern and worthy of discussion by the City Council. The problem being that Council ends up discussing them in the context at some other agenda item that they have for that meeting night and they don't get to it. This could be just another factor of what the Mayor has been doing on the five. minute rule. He said there was no rule that needed to be imposed. If there was just a Draft not apprzved little bit more rigor, in terms of sticking to the agednda, and everybody agreed that it =ade sense to stay to the order of business they %%Nouhl get out earlier. Aid. Rainey stated chat she has said before. will t3y again and has spoken to the Mayor in private and public. Ic is the Mayor's obligation. The Mayor is in charge of running tIk meeting. If the Mayor lets Council wonder all over that is a whole ocher thing and the Mayor needs to tighten the rings on that. Aid. Rainey stated that she would prefer th:.at than only having five minutes to speak on a specific subject. If you are on point you should be able to finish your presentation no matter how Iong it takes you, as long as yaau are on point. Aid. Feldman indicated he also would prefer the ability to explore an issue and than adverting the issue or talking about a lot of other things. Ald. Moran said he agreed to a large degree that the Mayor could exercise some control, but the Council could individually and collectively indicate their %%ilIingness to have that discipline employed during the meetings. The committee agreed. Aid. Rainey said they all have the opportunity to raise points of order, to remind people to stay on point and maybe help the Mayor control the meetings better. Ald. Newman said the problem he had was the relationships Council has with the Chair. He didn't have confidence that he would be treated the same way, implementing the rule, as Ald. Drummer would. When people are going to be bipartisan and support staying on it whether it is friend or foc then there is not a problem. Sometimes you have to give an example of wasteful spending that isn't exactly the item you are on to illustrate why you think it is NMsteful. Ald. Newman also stated that there is no planning of the meetings. Tbey've had several instances where 30 people have showed up at the Planning & Development Committee meeting and the committee was not aware of it and then the same night they may have 3 or 4 presentations scheduled. Aid. Rainey asked what did he mean by that because the Administration &Public Works committee talks to staff. Ald. Newman said for example the police awards. Aid. Rainey said somebody is planning. Aid. Newman said if you have an issue like the Preservation ordinance on the agenda, it is not a good idea to have police awards on that same night. Mr. Crum said the police awards were planned about six weeks in advance with invitations that were sent out. The Historic District issue was carried over to that meeting from the previous meeting. They knew they had a problem, and at that point staff talked about canceling the police presentations, but they had families and everybody planning to be there. Staff goes over the agenda three times before it goes to Council and sometimes they run into a problem. Mr. Crum said they have cancelled things that were placed on the agenda at the Iast minute. 2 IL Draft not approved Another issue Aid. Newman pointed our was the night people showed up at Planning & Development committee on the Asbury issue. He didn't know abour it and was the chair at that time. Not being critical of them coming, but what happens is that you might have Executive Session go to 7:20 p.m., walk into Planning & Development and 30 people are there, you are suppose to be out at 8:30 p.m. and you've got more than the Asbury issue on the agenda. Many of the run -over of meetings are due to the unexpected happenings at the meetings. For example, Executive Sessions that are going to be long on nights when there are going to be a lot of people at one of the committee meetings, should not be held before the Council meeting. There are nights when there are an hour and a half of citizen comments that you can't do anything about. Aid. Rainey stated that the chair of the committee should be able to look at the agenda and know what are controversial items and whether or not there is going to be a heatiy load. Aid. Newman said at the Planning & Development Committee, they don't know how many people are going to show up until they get to the meeting. If you know in advance you can plan for an extra half-hour or forty-five minutes to cover the meeting. Mr. Crum said when Council sees something on the agenda that they don't know enough about or would like more information, they should call staff or send a note ahead of time. Even at the last minute or before the meeting. It would help staff to be prepared. Mr. Crum stated that Aid. Moran gives them a list of things that he would like and it helps get that information out. Aid. Newman said he did not think Executive Session should be called before the Council meeting if it is going to be long and if there is going to be a long committee meeting. Before the yellow agenda and committee agendas are put our, a phone call should be initiated to the committee chairmen, to try and ascertain if they see any hot issues. This way the City Manager can coordinate when he is going to start. Aid. Rainey said that happens in Administration & Public Works and Human Services, Mr. Terry always does that. Aid. Newman made the statement for public consumption on these issues of communication that the Mayor plays favors. Ald. Rainey stated that she has seen the Mayor not be fair. Aid. Moran said he did not remember when that had happened. Ald. Rainey said the Mayor needs to run a fair meeting. The Mayor is the person who ready can keep control of the meeting and Council can point out through points of order that people are wondering and getting off the subject and encourage the Mayor to be strong and fair. Aid. Newman agreed. i= Aid. Rainey said she thought they were doing better, but suggested putting this issue back on the agenda in about a month, 3 .3r Draft not approver! SCHEDULING GOAL SETTING RETREAT - The committee scheduled a goal setting retreat for Saturday, November 4 at 9:00 am. ar the Library if a room is available. AId. Rainey asked if there would be a facilitator. Mr. Crum said he was not sure they would "-ant the same facilitator they had before. Unless they have someone that is good, he would rather they work through it themselves. Mr. Crum said he would set up an agenda for a four-hour session and make sure they got through topics and facilitate. Aid. Feldman said the advantage to a facilitator is they are not familiar and there is same delegation of authority that allows for someone to be able to perceive what is going on and try to shape it in a way to move form-ard. Mr. Crum said the draw back is that it is hard to get a facilitator who understands city issues in a short period of time to keep moving in positive manners. He has worked with some facilitators where they just become so nebulous that you are not sure what you are trying to accomplish because they don't understand what the real city issues are. Mr. Crum suggested trying without a facilitator. The committee agreed. REVIEW OF ETHICS ORDINANCE: Aid. Newman stated that page TIp30.2 under section b Disclosure of Confidential Information needed to be re -written. The example he used was when Council discussed the Sears project in closed session for about 3 months prior to any public discussion. He stated for the record that the number of Executive Sessions under the 9 member Council had been a lot less than under the I$ member Council. But because confidential information applies to both, he didn't think an Alderman could be stopped from talking about issues with their constituents. If the Sears project was being discussed in close session, he didn't see how somebody could be prohibited from talking and getting the opinions of their constituents on that issue. Aid. Rainey asked how was this disclosing confidential information? Aid. Newman felt that elected officials have the right to discuss any topic that affects their ward. If there was going to be a development of a Sear in the downtown lie thought the Alderman of the downtown area had the right to feel out their constituents on what they thought about it. Aid. Newman gave another example, the Chairvalle lease issue that was in executive session for about b months. He said people were calling all the time on the ChairavaUe issue and they could not talk about the issue without an overlap. Section b, Disclosure of Confidential Information reads "No officer or employee shall, without proper legal authorization, disclose confidential information concerning the property, government or affairs of the City." He did not think an Alderman violated an ordinance by talking about a subject that may be in Executive Session with his constituents. Aid. Rainey stated that it would be a violation if you said to a constituent, which no one would do, "the Klutznick offer on the Champs or Foot Locker store is going to be such 4 Draft net approved and such." Talking about it as a concept and that there is poing to be a Scars development, didn't seem to be a x iolation. Ald. Feldman agreed with Aid. Newman b►tt they have to try to distill or reline the issme- If you were to say that there is going to I,e a development that the Klutznick People wanted and they are going to acquire the whole block, that is information that so.mcbcL�- might want to know about. While there is the question of discussing the concept of whether or not they should have a development that encompasses the whole block. The details of that and the question of acquiring the property and who is going to acquire it and the fact that it automatically enhances in value, if somcbkxiy desires it, {resents them with those kinds of problems. There was a difference between the Chairvalle issue and the Klutznick issue and they were both in Executive Session. Maybe there is a way in which the Executive Session issues are refined or separated. But he didn't see an easy way out of it. Aid. Moran said the less they did in Executive Session the better. The legal and practical presumption would be, that information needs to be guarded. If it does not need to be guarded, they would not be in Executive Session and should have an open session. if it has to be guarded that is when they are in Executive Session and the further legal presumption behind exemptions to the open meetings act is confidentiality protects the public. Frequently, it is an economic interest, especially on economic development issues. Basically what they are saying is that they are trying to enhance the publics interest by getting the best deal they can on an economic issue, on a transactional issue. It doesn't make any difference who it is, if anybody walks out, whether they are an Alderman, the Mayor of staff person or whoever and they tell everybody what it is then the element of protection that is inherent in the confidentiality is blown. Ald. Bernstein thought there was a degree of distinction. In generic terms, somebody is proposing a Sears development, then taking to its meeting what they are planning to acquire, etc., that could not be discussed. If in fact they can nor discuss things what they have to do is expand the time. Between the time they release it from Executive Session and it comes on the Council boor to aIIow for the kind of interchange and debate char they are talking about in the community. The condemnation sort of comes right from here to there. He thought that was inhere there was a concern and they should have been concerned about it because there was never a light of day shed on the issue whatsoever. But he thought it was really a question of degrees, he didn't want people to become aware that Klutznick is dealing with such and such and needs to acquire this and that and planning to offer this. But the fact that Klutznick is trying to put up a Sears, is pretty generic. Ald. Moran said that was a good illustration, because in that issue the broad design elements of the Klutznick project took public domain for years. It had been out in the public for a long time. If it is out in the public, go ahead and discuss it. If they have to 5 Draft not approved - come back and discuss some sensitive element lie didn't think they could go out and talk about that. Aid. Newman thought they started talking alvut the Sears project in public about 4 or 5 months after it came to their attention. He dii not think that an Alderman should be precluded. He was not saying that it tivas necessary to release or talk about figures or anything like that, but he thought an exception to this should be that an Alderman has the right to discuss issues that affects his constituents. He was not saying that an Alderman should use the information to advance his own private interest of himself or others. The best example of Sears or any other development issue is part of being able to vote and having a sense of what your constituents think. They don't have to &Zuss the parcel of property. The way this is written could be used as a sword against the particular Alderman. He has been on Councils where he has heard other members of the Council looking for opportunities to get other members of the Council before the Ethics Board. This is the type of thing that can be used. As far as he was concern the Chaira-valle issue that came before the last Council should not have been in Executive Session. The worst part of the issue was Aldermen were saying one thing publicly and different things privately. That was at a time when there were no minutes. Aid. Newman thought a statement could be made that an Alderman shall have a right to discuss issues that are being discussed in Executive Session as long as that information being discussed would not adversely hurt the City, so they could talk about the topics. Aid. Moran asked how would you do that. AId. Newman said for example, Sears is in Executive Session, you talk to your constituents and ask them if they like Sears. Technically Sears was talked about. Aid. Moran said that had been discussed in the public for about a year. Aid. Newman stated that there was at least a five -month period when it was not. Mr. Crum said that was correct. AId. Newman added that by the time it got into the public session a lot of time went by. You are not being fair to the developer in that case. If nobody wanted Sears you should be telling them early. AId. Newman proposed that this provision should not be construed in a way w prevent elected officials from discussing issues with their constituents. If the committee wanted to exempt elected officials he would be willing to do that. He didn't remember too many cases in the nine years on the Council where he had a concern that Aldermen were going out and discussing directly with people who wanted to advance their financial interest, things that are going on in close session. He didn't really see a big need for this to begin with. Aid. Moran said then they are not Executive Session issues and it is not confidential information. Aid. Newman said on page T1p30.? "Impartiality" should spell out that this does not apply to an elected official taking a position out of public interest. Ald. Rainey said she thought the "Impartiality" should be totally eliminated from the ordinance. Aid. Newman agreed. Aid. Moran said so you would want the Council to act with partiality, prejudice and bias for the benefit of terrain citizens of this community. Aid. Rainey said Draft not apprcti,ad she is totally bias for some citizens in this town. Aid. Morn objected. Aid, Newman he wouldn't mind keeping the second sentence. Aid. Bermstein said they discrinunate all the time on the biases of CDBG funds. Aid. Newman morvd to strike "Imp:tirtiality". Aid. Rainey seconded. Aid. Newman said if they amend the "Disclosure of Contidgnrial Information" he was going to try to make some legislative history that it is not a, violation of the ordinance for an Alderman to talk to a neighborhood group about changing some portion of the Cite code. Ald. Newman said on page T1p30.6, "Ethics Commission; Complaints" he would like to add that a complaint must allege what portion of the code is being violated and a factual bases for the violation. Also add that the Ethics Board will hear no testimony on any complaint until the party accused has been given notice anal the opportunity to respond. Aid. Rainey said on page T1 p30.4 under number 3 add any complaint coming to the Board of Ethics no matter who it is against that person muk be notified within 24 hours with the verbatim complaint. It is stated very casual and should be very specific, it reads "....notice of the matter at issue......" Maybe in other places also. Aid. Newman said he would go a step further, and maybe say that the committee shall give notice within 24 hours and shall not consider any complaint unless the accused has been notified in writing of the time and place of the item considered. Aid. Feldman said there was absolutely no recourse as to the ultimate responsibility of people making the complaint. And that means that anybody can make a complaint no matter how frivolous, no matter how fantastic, no matter how far from reality it is and that complaint gets as much consideration as one that has a bases and fact. Aid. Bernstein wanted to fine-tuned some of that notice rr ,-d time by stating that theoretically they could notify you and have a hearing the next day. You've had notice. You are talking about time to respond. They get the notice. get a copy of the complaint and give them an appropriate time to respond. Then determine whether or not there is factual bases to go forward to a hearing. Aid. Newman said that was it. Aid. Bernstein seconded. Aid. Newman added that the complaint had to allege a specific code violation, what portion of the court, and factual bases for the violation. AId. Moran said he thought the committee had adequately covered on the notice issue. He didn't think they should put in it the complaint that it has to state a section. What is being done, by saying that, is if someone feels they are being laundered. Lets say they are not a sophisticated person and somehow feel as though they have been dealt unfairly by someone within City government. Maybe they don't have a copy, maybe they can't even read the Ethics ordinance, but they know they feel they have been slided or faulted or dealt with unfairly. We should not impose a formality requirement on the complaints. 7 Draft not approved Aid. Bemstein said he would say that the tryer fact should assign to it some code under which it would come. Mr. Crum said isn't it more important to get the actual fact that you have an alleged violation and the exact wording of that violation back to the person within 24 hours. Aid. Rainey said no. A complaint doesn't mean there is a violation. Mr. Crum said if you are looking to assign it, somebody has to review and make an assignment to a chapter that requires additional work. It seems more important to get the information back to the person quickly. Aid. Rainey said that was critical. Aid. Rainey said she thought they should leave the one on notice one in and get that amendment in. Aid. Newman asked if they were going to the Council with a package or going with one at a time. Aid. Rainey said she would raoher get what they had. Aid. Feldman said he would rather do it all at one time. Aid. Newman asked that the legal staff give an interpretation of section "E" "Sanctions: Violations of any provision... may constitute a cause far censure, suspension, removal from office...." page Tlp30.5. Whether they think an elticted official can be removed by the Ethics Board or by a recommendation to the Council Aid. Newman said this same ordinance applies to employees. Aid. Rainey stated that the City Manager could remove an employee. Mr. Crum said staff would respond. Aid. Newman said an explanation of how that actually works would be helpful. He thought staff should write some language on Notice. Aid. Rainey thought the notice one was very simple. No votes were taken. OTHER BUSINESS: Aid. Rainey reminded the committee of the City Manager's evaluation scheduled for October 4 at 7:30 p.m. ADIOURNMENT: Meeting ►vas adjourned at 7:40 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francellno N. Draft not approved Mh*IUTES OF THE SPECIAL RULES COMMITTEE MEETING MONDAY, AUGUST 7, 2000 6:30 p.m. ALDERMANIC LIBRARY Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Stephen Engelman, Gene Feldman, Edmund Moan, Art Newman, and Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Ann Rainey Absent: Aldermen Dennis Drummer. Joe Kent and Melissa Wynne Staff Present: Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno, Mark Franz, Herbert Hill, Mary Morris and Carlos Ruiz Guest: Mayor Morton, Vito Brugiiern, Mary O. Brugliera, James D. McWilliams, Mary B. McWilliams, Dorothy Dare, Kirk Irwin, Judy Fiske, Rosemary O'Neil, Bob Seidenberg and Beth Demes {YA1,1.10 OR12ER• Aid. Rainey called the meeting to order at 6:40 p.m. APPROVAL. OF THE MINVIES_OF JULY& 2000CBEGULARI AND JULY 31 2000 (SPECIAL): Aid. Moran moved for approval of the July 5, 2000 minutes. He had a correction but could not find it at the time. Seconded by Aid. Bernstein. Motion carried. No nays. Aid. Engelman moved for approval of the July 31, 2000 Special Rules Committee meeting. Ald. Bernstein seconded with a correction on page 4 in the first line of the last paragraph "His view as part of this committee, is just an adversary from the Council." should read emissary not adversary. Motion carried. No nays. AL_DERn1ANIC COMEENSATION: Ald. Rainey said there was an Aldermanic Compensation Committee report, which many of them had some issue with. She opened the floor for discussion. Aid. Engelman asked why this issue was at the Rules Committee? Mayor Morton said she had a little problem with that also. She thought it should be at Council. Aid. Rainey said she asked that it be put on this agenda because she thought it was a Rules Committee matter. Ald. Engleman said as long as it is on the agenda, let's hear what people have to say. UItimately the decision will have to be made by the Council. Aid. Rainey said any decision that this committee or any other committee makes has to be made by the Council. Aid. Rainey said she found the tone of the report insulting and angering. It reminded her of public administration theory of the 60's and 50's where only bank presidents, head of firms or corporations served on municipal government. When she first became an Alderman she was a single mother of 2 high school students who was left with a mortgage. She maintained a full time job, took care of the 2 kids, and every penny of that Aldermanic salary was very important to her. Now, in order to represent her ward, with no kids to worry about, she can no longer adequately represent her ward and hold down her full time job. She has had to go part-time and thinks that there are others like her who might want to serve on this Council. She agrees that people who Draft not approved serve don't serve for the money, because she certainly does not, but the money is important to supplement what income you might give up in order to do it or what it cost you to do this job. 1t is not an easy job for someone to hold who has to work for a living and who doesn't have a lot of disposable income. She feels that minimal Aldermanic salaries should be 10,000 a year, the Mayor should receive 15,000 and anybody who feels that that is too harsh for taxpayers to pay, should give back that portion of their salary to the general fund that they feel is excessive. She would not do that, but said those who feel adequately compensated elsewhere, who do this just because they have community spirit and don't need extra income, should give it back. Aid. Engelman said no amount of money will ever adequately compensate any of them for the amount of time and effort the AIdermen, Mayor and City Cleric put into this job. With 2 college tuitions he can appreciate every extra dollar and said it's important to be compensated to cover the expense incurred by doing this job. He said the fact is that this is public service, this is not a full time job, at least they have not yet made the decision to call this a full-time job, where they are going to be compensated as salary based upon the hours that they are putting in. Aid. Rainey mentioned her suggestion of S 10,000. Ald. Engleman said nobody had made a motion. Aid. Rainey agreed, but noted she was not talking about compensating her for the hours that she put in for this job. She was talking about a token. Aid. Engleman said he was not saying the S 10,000 proposal was right or wrong, either. Discussion ensued on the S 10,000 figure, the ' value of the work, etc. Aid. Engleman noted that S10,000 is a Iot of money and when you add in the medical benefits it is even more. It is always hard to put a figure on public service. Aid. Moran asked details of what the compensation committee recommended. Aid. Rainey answered S7,000 and an increase in their insurance. Aid. Newman said evidently somebody raised the insurance issue to that committee. Aid. Engelman said other than the figures, he didn't remember seeing a lengthy, detailed explanation of how the committee arrived at that figure, other than some multiple prior to the prior years. Aid. Newman said they also attached the list of other compensation. Aid. Rainey added there was a discussion about how people don't do this for the money and one shouldn't do it for the money. Aid. Newman suggested they answer Aid. Moran's question which he believed was what did they recommend in terms of dollars. Aid. Rainey said it was 7,500 annually, the rationale was it represents a cost of living for 7 years. She explained there hasn't been a raise in 7 years, plus an increase in insurance. Aid. Engelman said there was absolutely no comment in the report other than cost of living on why these salaries were recommended, there wasn't even a cost of living statement as to Aldermanic salary. It was just cost of living with regard to the other salaries. He didn't think there was an explanation, and ivas not sure that he fully understood the rationale for it. Aid. Rainey said there was an explanation, 7 years of cost of living increase. In addition the report contained more than that and there were minutes. Aid. Newman said there was an attachment of Aldermanic salaries from other communities. 2 Drn#T taoT approved Aid. Feldman said he agreed with what Aid. Stt**elman said tint no atimunt of money will adequately compensate members of the Council for the hours they put in. He didn't know how people did it. He felt it was an astetzishing financial sacrifi.c to hold this otti.~e, He couldn't imagine somebody holding a job, %here they had to put in hotim. and can't spend time un the phone during the day, holding this office. He noted most of the people hcrc are either self- employed, run their own business or something like that. Thosc that ► o not like Aid. Kent and Aid. Rainey have a very difficult time. Even to say that sontehody is self-employed or runs their own business doesn't mean that they are not giving up tot►.+ of money. An attorney giving up hours during the day, gives up billable hours. It is conccivable that somebody can wind up having this job cost them 50 to 80 tbD,isand dollars a year, just to serve the public. Forget about getting it back. He estimated it takes Z to 30 hours a week to serve your constituents. That is what he spends and probably everybody else does too. The issue is w'hcther or not there is a value, you can't even begin to do it so you can advocate and say let's not even think about the raise. It is paltry as far as he was concerned it is not even symbolic. He thanked the people for the work they did but felt their comments were totally incidental, and nothing to do with reality. Nobody ever called him to ask how much time he spends, how much money he spends, or how much money it costs people to live is this office. So to that extent he felt the report was unrealistic. He termed Aid. Rainey's suggestion astonishingly modest. He said every place he goes people say "How do you do it?'" and think they must be insane to do what they do. To take the guff, along with the time and the meetings and everything else and to do it for that kind of money. If there are people that want representation without the modest kind of increase that Aid. Rainey suggested, it is too bad. He would tun for office of a vote for an additional increase without any hesitancy. And with absolutely no increase in the cost for medical care. Aid. Newman asked Mr. Crum if he paid anything for health insurance and what the monthly contribution was? He said yes it is similar to what they pay, a relatively small amount. Aid. Newman said so the compensation that they receive means that they are treated the same as the other employees, neither higher or lower. Aid. Newman wanted to make it very clear on the health insurance issue. He believed strongly that over the past 9 years anybody serving on the Council has been treated less than city employees, because they haven't gotten any increase since 1993. Whereas city staff have gotten a cost of living and other increases. In addition, he didn't believe that Council should be treated less than other city employees in regards to health insurance. If as a whole they decide to make city employees pay more for their health insurance then he thought the members of the Council who draw health insurance should likewise have to pay more. He said in regards to this committee, he didn't even know that they were meeting, there was no communication to the Council that they were meeting. He asked if any member of the Council met with that committee, and whose views on compensation were solicited? No one present had spoken to the committee. Aid. Newman raised several issues regarding the committee: how it was appointed; no Council members were on it; how quickly they met and completed their business; lack of solicitation of Council members' views. He thought it gave less credibility to the report, though he respected the people on the committee. He gave an example of why he agreed with Aid. Rainey's remarks and would support what she said. He did not hear what Aid. Rainey said just to clarify it, as any request for fulltime compensation. He heard it as a request for compensation that will make it easier for people to take this as a second job. He thought as a lawyer he made a very good salary and could support his family. But he did not look at this service and what he is paid as anything 3 Draft not approved connected to his employment. He was in a positk%n where he voted against every salary increase that has ever come before the CcQncil until this time. Aid. Newman pointed out to the other members what Aid. Kent and Aid. Rainey, as an example, have been doing over the last }ter. They actually take time during the work day and go out to tits Second Municipal District on re+eated occasions because of the type of housing situation in their wards. Without them going th4-r_ he firmly believed that the people in their Wards would be served at a much lower level, bc%=usc of how important the housing issues are. That is part of doing a good job and these Aldermen are doing it but it is a tremendous drain on time. He couldn't go out there at 1:00 pm or f 0:00 am for those court calls nor could he go to the groundbreaking that was scheduled at 10.30 am for the hotel that he wanted to go to very much. He thought there was an expectation that members of the Council take every meeting that is requested of them by citizens. He didn't turn down any from anybody, feeling it was part of the job whether it has to be on the werkend, whether it has to be early in the morning or at night. He also felt compelled to listen to all the citizens who come and want them to take extra time in their meetings to be able to fit that in. He also had a different altitude than some members, in that he felt that on difficult issues he needed to spend more time to elicit more information to get the decisions right. He knew some members elected felt it would be better to go home sooner than stay later. He thought the point that Aid. Rainey made was entirely on target. He thought it was entirely fair, and that it was hard for people to take this as a second job unless the compensation is reasonable. Reasonable, meaning it is still very much public service. When he decided to be here at 3.30 in the afternoon the other day he was in his view doing public service, he was leaving his place of employment where he could have been making a lot more money, and that is because their jabs demand that sometimes. He thought that a fair part-time salary is based on the amount of time that they put in and what the public demands of them. Aid. Bernstein wished that the committee had thought to contact them. He didn't understand that decision inasmuch as no one on the committee ever served on a 9 person Council and they really have no knowledge ofwhat is going on here. The 10 grand is certainly not compensation for full- time employment, you are not talking about adequate compensation for the time that you put in on a given day. His morning today was from 9:30 to about 1:15 dealing with two distinct problems. He didn't take any calls for his job and can do that because he has a wife that supports him, but it is difficult. None of them do this for the money, they do it for public service, they do it because they care about the community and because they can. He had no problems leaving it as is or raising it. He was a little put out by the fact that no one came to ask his opinion about whether or not the compensation was fair or adequate. He knows there are times when he spent $10.00 in parking meter money downtown talking to people, he comes out and feeds the meter or has to pay a ticket. He has never asked for a ticket to be forgiven and has received them while at a meeting or charitable event, which he couldn't leave. He had no problem raising it to 10 grand as a symbolic number or for leaving it as it is. Aid. Feldman said an issue that should get some attention, and what the City of Evanston has done over a course of years is literally guaranteed that vast sections of the populations cannot serve as a member of the City Council. This increase does not change that because if person is working for someone else, they can't say well look I've just gotten a raise, so you don't even have to pay me for a portion of the day. Nobody is going to operate that way. It either replaces another job or it doesn't replace another job. Because people either have to work for a place where they can make a living or they can not work for a place where they can make a living and find other means of compensation. That has a lot to say about representing the Government. If somebody wants to run for office they have to say it and agree to a financial sacrifice or not be 4 t Z)mf t not cppvved able to do it at all because they can't give the time. &) it d-.x='% rr7t ,.v a t6's X'SJ if it d',V=*t then you are going to be getting the same kind of people: M Vk that htvv rc Lv;ctt mmcy so thcst they don't need the 10,000, tbey don't need the ',fait) ind the gv-v t:p s )N rs.,tr. That sans a 3m About who is going to run for office and the kind ofot3irc :-lilt %% It E:a_c t,rcn traditional throughout the history of this communtt%. Pec-TIc :hj, we are limiting the office to people who can afford to <, end dic tintr a:.� :.ha: n> n, t N�)-- Aid. Engelman said this is not a part-time job, it k not s sc%,Nand rvt% it is publcl s:rtiict, always has been. Some of them didn't ask for this job, they are in this p.t, hNtiauzr a tiM-,Up of M--Pte from their community came to ask them to do the pub tic service Ne saying that they should be talking about a salary for a fulltime position, untm,; that is what this %:%immunity wancs to do, but he didn't hear that. Just because one is set(-cmptoyrd doesn't mean •.hat one has the freedom of his or her schedule. Some of them have pwmcrs and those of Usw'-so are professionals have clients that probably are more demanding than a boss, so to cl e.-. He felt what is adequate compensation for a public servant to public scrr icc jobs is serncthing that they - shouldn't be deciding, it is something that a group of citizens decides. lie appreciated the fsct that this group of citizens did not talk to any of them. That probably was a drauoack but on the other hand believed they have a full appreciation or close to a full appreciation of the problems that they have being on a 9 member Council. He has been on both a 9 and 18 member Council. While it is significantly more work on a 9 member Council than an 18 member Council, he was assured that they had all had some relationship with those of them who have been on a 9 member Council, to be able to appreciate what is going on. To him it is the citizens that need to decide what it is that we pay ourselves. He had no problem with them making suggestions, but would prefer to give a lot more deference to the recommendation of the citizens committee appointed by the Mayor. Aid. Newman said it is a City Council decision on every single pay level on the sheet, it is not the citizens committee. And this group is an advisory committee to this City Council and our rules provide that an advisory committee to the City Council is appointed with the ratification of rite City Council. And in this particular case, the makeup of that committee would have been subject to Council discussion if the committee had been brought to them and for whatever reason it had not been. He didn't think that it was properly appointed. He said a State Legislator, the President of the United States, and Jan Schakowsky's jobs are all public service, any person who runs for elected office is doing public smicc. There are many people who make choices about their legislative jobs in Springfield as to whether or not they are going to continue full or part time employment. There is no amount of money that will ever compensate anybody that takes this job and does it the right way. It is still public service whether we are paid S6,000 or 510,000. There are some people who take this job who don't make as much as others on the Council but they still, in order to have diversity on the Council belong here. Aid. Newman appreciated the work of the committee, just didn't see the committee as being as well informed. Aid Nc hm= asked the deadline of when they had to complete the work. Mary Morris thought is was ISO days before the April 3 election, sometime in early November. Aid. Newman asked the recommendation for the City Clerk. Mary Morris said the committee recommended 45,000, from 36,000 to 45,000. Aid. Rainey asked if Nis. gave the committee input. Ms. Morris said she just provided them with the information: the history of these raises, the benefits and what other communities do for their Mayor, Clerk and Aldermen. 5 �C Draft not approved Aid. Rainey said her concern was with the Aldermanic salary. She thought anybody who had issues with any of this could certainly bring it to them. Aid. Newman thought it was a package. But he would like to consider the clerk and the Mayor after the Aldermanic issues. Aid. Nm-man moved S 10,000 on the Aldermanic salary with insurance staying the same, 517,00O on the Mayor's salary and 545,000 on the Clerk's salary. Mr. Crum said on the medical they would have to work on the language but it might be appropriate to make it equivalent to exempt employees. Aid. Newman moved that all elected officials' health insurance be handled the same way as city exempt employees as part of this_ So if the city exempt empio)-= went down they would go down and if they chose during the budget to have it go up then it v►muld go up. Aid. Feldman wanted to know what that means in teams of these annual contributions. Mr. Crum said approximately that is the way they were created at the present time, but didn't ]stow if they've been changed slightly since then or not. He offered to get the exact number. Ald. Feldman seconded the motion. Aid. Moran said he could support a 25% increase across the board, he would be voting against the motion. He suggested that it should be roughly 25% for each, 8,000, 15,000 and 45,000. That would be 25% for everybody, which he thought was a substantial increment. Aid. Rainey said she thought that the salaries should be separated. Her motion was 10,000 for Aldcrmanic salaries. She did not want to impose her will on any other public servant. She was not willing to compromise on the Aldermanic salaries. Whatever other people thought they were entitled needed to speak up. She didn't see how Aldennanic salaries could be discussed in the same motion as the City Clerk's, which is a fulltime position. Aid. Newman offered to make his motions one at a time, S 10,000 for the Alderman with insurance the same as the exempt employees. Aid. Feldman seconded. The motion passed with 4 yea and 2 nays (Aid. Engleman and Moran). Mr. Crum clarified that this was actually a direction to put before the full City Council. The answer was yes. Aid. Newman moved for 17,000 for the salary of the Mayor and the same exempt insurance as the city exempt employees. Aid. Bernstein seconded. The motion passed with 4 yea and 2 nays (Aid. Engleman and Moran). Aid. Newman moved for 45,000 for the City clerk with the same exempt insurance as the city exempt employees. Aid. Feldman seconded. Aid. Engelman asked if the City Clerk was a fulltime employee and does the city clerk get the sick and vacation days? Aid. Rainey said no. Aid. Engelman said his point was that the city clerk is generally here all of the time. She could just call in but she doesn't. Aid. Newman clarified his motion because of the point Aid. Engleman made. His motion is whatever compensation the city clerk gets is set by the City Council, because it is an elected official. If somebody wanted to put together a package that included sick days and vacation pay and whatever else that they thought was appropriate for that position, he would be glad to consider that. But his motion is 45,000, no other compensation other than health insurance and the right to pay into whatever pension benefits that they have. 19 Draft not oppmwed Ald. Moran said the vote taken was for 52% for Alderman, 42% for Ninyor and 2256 for the C14 Clerk and on a relative basis, the City Clerk's position is the one full -tints positiwt. Ho did nua understand the disparity in the increments. Aid. hmrm n explained: It was not in any way to put a different value on the City Clerk's service, but he remembered when he started that the City Clerk's salary, and going back to even 1993, %%-as around 23,000 or 22,000 a year and they took steps during the 7 )gars to raise the salary m ithout touching the Aldermanic salary. If you go back to the history of that salary the previous City Clerk made 22,000, so they went from 22,000 to 36,000. Ald. Rainey commented that this is just going to be recommended to the Council. There will be time for the City Clerk and anybody else who wants to come back with any kind of documentation or argument or changes or amendments to approach any of us. Motion carried. No nays. 11.4 ;01 :41 a J :01-1::1 Aid. Rainey said in reviewing the municipal code, she was surprised to learn that the Board of Ethics reports to the Rules Committee, which used to be the Committee on Committees. She did not recalled at least in her tenure, having a routine report from the Board of Ethics to the Rules Committee. Since they do have an issue of interest to a broad segment of this City, she thought they could get a report of what they've been doing and specifically what have they done lately. Mr. Hill said he had been on vacation and had not discussed this %with the Board of Ethics. The Board in the last year has met approximately 7 times. They just concluded a meeting last week involving questions concerning the Preservation Committee. The transcript and the written report have not yet been issued. That meeting resulted in the determination of no jurisdiction for the Board to proceed. That matter at this point is closed. Aid. Newman asked what matter was closed. Mr. Hill said this is a matter with respect to a letter which was forwarded to the Mayor's attention by a Mr. Trieshman concerning the conduct of what was reported as the associate members of the Preservation Committee. It was determined at the most recent meeting of the Board of Ethics that the named individuals in this letter were not associate members of the Preservation Commission, hence there was no jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of the Board of Ethics pertains to officers and employees of the City of Evanston, not to citizens in general. That matter was determined, he believed last Wednesday or Thursday and the final documents will be prepared and issued probably in the next 3 to 4 weeks. Prior to that the Board met on a citizen complaint, a letter that he received that he forwarded to the Board of Ethics. That matter is not yet ready to be released to the public. The citizen filed a letter of concern, the Board scheduled a meeting, notified that citizen to appear before the Board and discussed the matter. Aid. Rainey clarified that a citizen sent a letter to bring before the Board of Ethics on a matter having to do with another private citizen. Mr. Hill said with an elected official. That matter was held in abeyance because the private citizen never appeared at the Board of Ethics meeting despite efforts to contact the person or forwarding correspondence to that person. 7 Draft not approved Aid. Rainey asked how do they find out who that elected official is? Mr. Hill said under the ru5cs of the Board of Ethics the person mined in that letter is not subject to public scrutiny unless d= citizen makes the letter public or the Board of Ethics makes its initial determination that the request has merit or an investigation is warranted. Whcn the Board received that letter and beg= its inquiry into that matter and requeted the citizen to come forward and provide information, that citizen did not appear before the Board. So that matter is basically in a limbo status with respect to the Board. Aid. Rainey asked that they get all of the details that govern this Board_ She said she had been around here, minus 4 years, since 1983 and had no clue of what he was talking about. Mr. Hill said the written rules and procedures of the Board will be forwarded to the City Council. Ald. Rainey asked if members of the City Council had access to their Executive Session? Because it its her understanding that members of the City Council and the Mayor are able to sit on any Executive Session. Mr. Hill said they had that issue debated many years ago at the Board of Ethics, it is always subject to review. But at that prior time the Aldermen of the City were precluded from the discussion of the Board of Ethics. Aid. Engelman asked that Mr. Hill finish his report Ald. Rainey said he doesn't know, he wasn't there. Aid. Engelman said he is not talking about 2 out of 7 meetings. Ald. Rainey asked about the Executive Session at the meeting the other night. Mr. Hill said he did not know what the executive session was on. Aid. Rainey said what authority do they have to go into executive session? Mr. Hill said it is a specific exemption under the open meetings act with respect to a professional Board closing its meeting to the public to discuss matters of its expertise with its advisory board. Ald. Feldman asked if the Board was required to notify anybody that it is considered investigating? Mr. Hill said when the Board makes a determination that the complaint of the letter as fried with it is of merit or an investigation is warranted, then the Board begins its formal process and notifies all of the particular individuals involved in the matter. Aid. Rainey asked if they wrote this legislation? Is this City ordinance? Mr. Hill said yes. Ald. Rainey said they need to take a look at that. Aid. Feldman said so it is conceivable that they can determine whether or not the issue has merit without the person being investigated, even knowing they are being investigated? Mr. Hill said correct. It is basically a determination that there is a threshold question that should be considered by the Board. It is very clear that term of" merit" or "investigation warranted" does not generate or preclude a finding of the Board at that time. It is just to open up the inquiry. Aid. Rainey reiterated the need to look at this. Aid_ Newman asked if a citizen forwarded the letter to Mr. Hill? Mr. Hill said yes. Ald. Newman said say somebody writes a letter about an elected official that they didn't like a vote on the Council or the ordinance that they wrote, and they think it is an ethical issue. Doesn't our professional staff advise the City's Board of Ethics committee whether or not something comes close to violating an ordinance? He asked if the issue was about the Presmation ordinance? Mr. Hill said no: the inquiry that he is referring to was an inquiry from about 5 or 6 months ago. It has nothing to do with the Preservation ordinance. Aid. Rainey asked why are we still dragging it out? Aid. Engelman said because the citizen hasn't appeared. 8 K bmf t not apm awd Aid. Newman said his problem adth the closed rnatter is that it is not clear to him whrthcr ur=t the only reason it hasn't proceeded is bccausc somebody didn't chore up. At conic point then have to strike it from their agenda and at some point it has to go ratline than have something h=g over the elected official's head without a resolution. Aid. Rainey agreed. Ald. Ncwnlali said it is problematic that there is an elected official either among the Council, the Afavor, the City Cterk, Township Supervisor or Assessor. who has had this hanging out there without any ability to know it or to respond to it. He had never made a referral to the Ethics Board, because Ito felt it operated in a politicized way. He felt the work that they've done in the last i rears wid 8 years ago &-zing the Mayor's race, was completely politically used. He was concerned right now that as a rescnit of them passing the Preservation ordinance that it again is being politically used and the people whom brought the ordinance. This committee is being used as a simple way to get even with people. Aid. Rainey asked Mr. Hill to go back to the Committee. She said when the chairman of a standing committee requests a report from the Board of Ethics that is what is meant. She did not mean that somebody who has not been in contact and who has been on vacation comes and makes excuses for that committee. She expected a written report and thought a report of their activities and the issues before them over the last year was fine. She has never seen an agenda or minutes from the Board of Ethics. Mr. Hill said had the board had an intervening meeting which it could have addressed that issue, it would have. It is his understanding that the request came within the last week. I'm here without having had this matter discussed with the Board giving an oral report as to what the history of the Board has done in the last year. The Board certainly at its next meeting will address and present a formal report stating its meetings and stating the contents of those meetings in the last year. Aid. Rainey requested that a member of the Board come to make that presentation. Mr. Hill said they would. He said that the long-term chainnan of the board had just had his term completed so it is somewhat in limbo with respect to that, but there would be a representative of the board at the next meeting. Just for the record, Mr. Hill said he was not there to make an excuse or to apologize for the Board, but to present facts as to what the board has done in the last year. The board has acted upon requests that it receives. Aid. Rainey said the last statement did not have any substance. Mr. Hill said the most recent matter was resolved last week and the written report is not issued. Aid. Rainey said that is fine. but what about other stuff? Do they meet once a month? Mr. Hill said not necessarily, they meet basically on an as needed basis when the requests come in and then they could meet two or three times a month to address the issue. Aid. Rainey said she understood that the timing was bad and that they would get a report and that this was not the report. Mr. Hill said correct. Aid. Moran said what provision of the City ordinance requires the Ethics Board to report to the Rules Committee. Mr. Hill said the city code does state that the Board of Ethics should make a report to the Committee on Committees (now Rules Committee) once a year. Aid. Moran said lie would just like to put on the table that at some point the Rules Committee consider changing that part of the city code, so that the report would be filed with the City CIerk. He didn't believe a committee whose job is to review ethics complaints of people should report to the people that has to work on 9 Draft not approved in terms of ethics. It would be a complete compnxitisc to die Ethics Committee N hAve them do that. Ali. Rainey disagreed. Aid. Newman pointed out that the Ethics Committer deals with a much greater p`.vl of people than the elected officials. They also deal «nth the members of thc staff, members of the commission, so that is why it is appropriate, bet Luse a member of our city staff = be referred to the Board of Ethics. Mr. Hill said commission members arc subj=t to the Board of Ethics and city employers, elected and appointed officials. Aid. Newman said what he %%vuld like to get an their agenda is a review of the entire ordinance and some of the rules concerning complaints. His concern is somebody can make a complaint without putting facts down. It is not the job of the Ethics Board to find the facts on a broad -brush complaint. It is the job of the Ethics Board to t*e a factual complaint, and somebody can't just say a member of the commission was unethical. They have to be able to put in writing specific acts before they shrr somebody to back it up. He felt the ordinance was lacking because of what %%w going on in the Ethics Board right now. It is an embarrassment in many ways to this community, getting out of hand to where somebody is on a volunteer job on a commission and can be slurred without any specific acts being named. They have to revisit the ordinance right away. The committee decided to meet again on August 16 at 8:00 p.m. to allow them more time. ADJ(21)RNl►tENT4 Meeting was adjourned at 7:20 p.m. 0 Draf t not oppmv ed MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL RULES CO,\VNI TTEIi 4N1L•ETING MONDAY, DULY Z I. 200t) 6.30 p.nt. ALDERIMANIC LIBRARY ! Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Strphcrt lin►,clnun, Ckne Feldautt, Jor gent, Edmund Moran, Art Newman, .inn Rainey and Ntclissa W)v= Presiding: Alderman Ann Rainey Absent: Alderman Dennis Drummer Staff Present: Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno, and Mark Franz Guest: Robert Atkins, Liz Austin, Dorothy Dan•, Beth Demes, Dame Ellis, Kirk Irwin, Lucile Krasnow, Rosemary O'Neil, Bob Seidenberg Harry Shubert, and Jack Weiss CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Rainey called the meeting to order at 6:40 p.m. SELECTION OF A NEGOTIATING TEA11 FOR NORTHMISTFRN U`IVE ITY DISC 1SSI!QNS: Aid. Rainey opened the floor for discussion. Ald. Bernstein said on the 4' of May, pursuant to the authority of the Rules Committee, while he was Chair he sent a letter to President Bienen. Wherein it said that the community had voted overwhelmingly to tell the Council of its wishes to negotiate with N V for its fair share. A response was received dated July I0. (Copies of the letter were distributed.) The letter stated that we wanted to meet and talk to President Bienen about any issue that would come up. Aid. Bernstein said he did not like the tone of the letter when he got iL It was interesting that he had not received the letter, but heard about it from Bob Seidenberg who Willed him to get his response to the letter. The letter was delivered to the Civic Center and was put in his mailbox and he didn't get it until Friday in his package. Apparently President Bienen or someone had provided a copy to both Bob Seidenberg and Mary Gavin, because both member 2, of Elie pry had the letter in advance of when he got it. Aid. Rainey said let's overlook the tone and move on. Ald. Feldman agreed and said they should be delighted with the opportunity to meet with the University and pursue the purposes as stated in the letter. He was prepared to move the composition of the negotiating team. Aid. Rainey asked that it be explained how the idea of the team was generated. Or was it assumed that there would be a team? Aid. Feldman said he thought it was assumed that there would be a negotiating team and it would consist of three members of the Council. Aid. Feldman moved that the Rules Committee recommends, appoints or recommends appointment, as negotiators representing the City Council of Evanston, three members of the City Council. They are Aid. Ann Rainey, Aid. Steven Bernstein and Ald An Newman. Also, that they arrange and contact President Bienen and indicate they also would be happy to meet with the understanding that the meeting would be held in public, and all future meetings. Ald. Engelman seconded. ir, Draft not approved Motion carried. No nays. Aid. Rainey said they would respond to the letter and set up a time. Aid. Newman said one example in the letter was that 1NV pays 1.7 milIion doIIars a year in water and sewer fees, but neglected to mention that it probably costs the City 1.6 million to deliver the water and sewer service to them. They like everybody else, pays for the capital improvements, the water mains and everything that we do to purify and mike the water available to our customers. The team needs to respond to some of the things that NAV calls contributions. NW seems to be of the mindset that since they are not users of City services, they should not have to pay for them. The second part is President Bienen is out of touch with what is going on in terms of what other University communities are doing. Mr. Bier..tn specifically said it was not up to him, the Board of Trustees of his University would never approve any money going to the City. Aid. Newman said there are documents on file with the City that states the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois in Urbana Champagne pays over a million dollars a year in addition to capital. NW needs to be educated on what other Universities are doing. The team needs to go to the negotiation prepared to talk about our budget, what , N%* is contributing and have a rationale for some contribution. AId. Rainey stated that the team needed to meet and generate that kind information. Aid. Newman said he was ready to begin work tonight. Aid. Rainey agreed but stated that they would not be able to get information tonight. Ald. Feldman said the case for NW's contribution has to be made. He urged the team to use it as evidence in the negotiation and not as an argument back and forth. The case can be mad; very clearly on what we need, what the University can do and what is being done all over the ..ountry. The fair share committee provided a great deal of information. As a beginning, the three members of the negotiating team should have the report of the previous committee that negotiated with NW for a full year and a report of how that went and exactly what occurred. Aid. Newman said he would like the team to develop a request that all nine Aldermen and the Mayor could sign off on as a reasonable, rational request for contributions that the University ought to be making to the city. He thought that there was common ground that all of them could reach if they looked at the issue in detail. He hoped when the negotiating team meets with the University, if they do come up with a request, that they would have at that time the support of everybody on the Council. Aid. Rainey asked if anybody thought it would be worthwhile to request a meeting with the Board of Trustees of the University? Aid. Bernstein said sure. AId. Newman said he had been in meetings with Mr. Sunshine, and Mr. Sunshine considers his counterpart to be the City Manager. The team could make the argument that their counterpart be the Board of Trustees of the University and not the Administration of the University. Aid. Bernstein said they also have to decide what they are going to ask for. Therc has already been a determination by the community that NW is not paying its fair share. He did not want to miss quote anyone, but thought that was the consensus on the whole Council. Yes NW does do a whole lot, but they could do more. As much as they are doing it is not equal to "fair share". That is the philosophy under which he would like to start the negotiation. Clearly, we have to provide their rationale for them, but educating them is not necessaril • what we are going to have to do, because we are not going to, he didn't believe. K x brof t not approu ed Aid. Rainey said there could be some educational oppezmutitio:s with the Boar! of Tntxters, because who if any of them live in E► anston, They mi zbt ttct have any i►tea uftlie c►►n►titian our community is in. Aid. Engleman asked if the proposal to meet with the T: u:tec: ►►as in lira of mocting ►vith President Bienen? Aid. Rainey said no. Ald. Engelman then asked if they were going to task roc - another meeting? Aid. Rainey said she saw them having numonnus meetings. At some point and time people from this Council need; to meet with members of that Boanl of Tnistces, They don't understand the nuts and bolts of probably why the vote ►w'as S00"', in favor of NW paying its fair share. They need to hear the other side of this argument. if President Bienen ► t- Mr. Sunshine is saying that the Board would never approve this. Aid. Feldman said fair share is an illusive concept. Somttime ►we think of it as NW paying directly for what it gets and only that. In other \vonis if they stet fire service and they pay for that, none of us pays only for what we get as citizens of this community. There are people whose children do not go to these schools and 70% of their tax bills go to the schools. He suggested that the discussion not be Iimited on whether someone is paying for what they get, because it goes far beyond that. Aid. Rainey said she always has argued that they not focus on fire service, because it cost money to run this town. Aid. Feldman said when they negotiated some years ago, fire services was only a vehicle. Bill Fisher said the only way that they thought of it at that time was payment for fire services. But that was just a vehicle to get money to the City, not because that was the only thing we wanted money for. He would hope that the committee would approach it in that manner. Mr. Shubert said in a recent Evanston Review, President Bienen was quoted as saying his responsibilities do not allow him to subsidize the City of Evanston. On one issue it seems to be the situation is reversed. He has always been interested in the Research Park and the totaling up of what the City has put into the Research Park compared to what NW has. In the beginning the 1994 Bell Corp report indicated that the City spent 16 million dollars per land acquisition and infrastructure. In addition, the City has been putting a Subsidy into the Research Park as NW has of about a quarter of a million a year, which comes to roughly 3 million. NW has also contributed that 3 million. In addition, Ron Kysiak told him a number of years ago when Research Park started that NW and the City each contni'buted 5 million dollars cash. He stated that NW was repaid this 5 million in cash and he said the City, instead of being repaid was given a mortgage on the land of parcels 2, 4 and 5. There use to be some property taxes coming from the Research Park. The value of what the city put in was between 35 and 40 million dollars and from what he has been able to find out NW only put in about 3 million dollars. Aid. Rainey asked Aid. Engelman to respond. Aid. Engeeman said Mr. Shubert was way off and he would be happy to talk to Mr. Shubert after the meeting. For instance the mortgage and note have nothing to do with anybody's original contribution to the Research Park. The note was for the amount that it cost the City to acquire the land, the specific land that was being mortgaged. Aid. Rainey said the 23 acres was divided almost evenly in thirds, A third the city owned, a third NW ow-ncd, and a third the City agreed to acquire that was owned by private entities. Mr. Shubert said but the actual expense of the City, amounted to that and according to Ron Kysiak, the city will never be repaid for this mortgage, and the value of the mortgage as of this year is in excess of I4 million dollars. That is a cost to the city. It amounts to about 3 million dollars, and in his opinion instead of NW subsidizing a city, the city has been subsidizing NW to 3 k Dro#t not appravc.41 a certain extent. Aid. Feldman said with all due Air. Kysiak %%-ts not them and if he aw there then he would feel a lot morn comfortable haN ing this discussion. Aid. Kent said we were talking about some of the things that the committee could take with them and he would hope one thing would be that the committee would take Nil' a very real picture of Evanston. We always talk about our senior citizen:, and fixed income. This has been wearing on them, as a matter of fact with the server rates. He t.iought that this was an important aspect to explain as far as what is going on if they could get sLime data on that. We know them area huge amount of senior citizens in Evanston and a huge a ;count struggling to bet by on fixed income as well. He thought that would be a real picture of pcl,ple hanging on because they want to live in Evanston and have many, many years in Evanston and their backs aft up against a wall. Aid. Rainey asked that the team decide on a meeting date to prepare for discussion. Aid. Newman said he was willing to spend time after the Rules Committee is adjourned. The committee agreed. Aid. Rainey said we should make a list of information that they want. The negotiating team decided to meet again on August 10. Aid. Engelman said what is the subcommittee's intent in terms of responding? Are you going to write a letter? Ald. Rainey said between now and probably the next meeting they need to at least make some kind of oversure. The letter should have been answered within 3 days or so. Aid. Engelman asked if the team would be coming back to the Rules Committee before they respond or if they wanted to report to the Rules Committee next Monday? Aid. Rainey asked if the team wanted to talk about that? Aid. Newman said he thought that they ought to regularly communicate, but he didn't think it had to be the Rules Committee. They could communicate at the Council. Aid. Rainey asked if everybody believed that before they take an action, the subcommittee needs to report and get approval? Or can they move forward? Aid. Newman said he would think that if they were going to take any major action they would consult with the rest of the Council. Aid. Rainey said if we were going to accept a certain contribution, yes but negotiating is kind of dynamic, she didn't see how they could do that. Aid. Newman said his sense of what their next step would be is before they actually have a meeting with the University that they would attempt, as the small group, to come back to the whole Council with a position and try to get everybody's support on that position. Aid. Wynne said she certainly would like to know what the approach is. It doesn't have to be a presentation, but something of an outline in terms of what you all have decided, with our input, because she has a tot of ideas about input before the team heads off. She thought the team should have some feedback before they go so everyone will have some sense of what the approach is and how you are going to prioritize the issues, then we get feedback. Aid. Bernstein agreed. His view as part of this committee, is just an adversary from the Council. He would like a tone set by the Council and how they are going in. His sense is that this is the last time they are going to try this, in terms of negotiation. He thought that they had to be hard and fast, their mission is to come away with some kind of contribution. At that very outset, the " Council has to set a tone. Are we going just to negotiate? We had this conversation before we 4 Draft not approved put the referendum on the ballot. Is it negotiation? What does that mean? What are we giving up? What are we looking for? He wants the tone of the Council, the sense of the Council in terms of what the group feels we should be doing. Aid Rainey said she certainly hoped their focus was not going to be on what we are giving up. The point of this team is what are we bringing back. Aid. Bernstein said that is fine. Ald. Rainey said this community has nothing to give up. Aid. Bernstein said that is his sense He only raised the question because we were fighting over semantics. To him negotiations are give and take. He does not think that he «ants to negotiate. What he wants to do is educate ITV to the fact that the community and the Council believe that they could do more for us. Now the question is what more are they going to do for us? Aid. Newman said he would phase it as what can NW do for themselves as part this community.. Aid. Feldman said he would like to be kept appraised, not on day by day issues, but certainly what is on the table. The kind of dynamics that arc occurring, the mode of the discussions and if they are going to be open. The initiatives, responses, their tone, your estimate of the prospects, whether you are on the same page, whether there will ever be a second meeting, those kinds of things. Ms. Peterson said several times they have provided to the Council the 1982 Cost Revenue Analysis that was prepared by another City Manager. It would be really helpful if perhaps some or the estimation procedures for what the cost of bearing the burden of the University in Evanston might be. She suggested that it would be helpful looking at that I982 Cost Revenue Analysis and update it into the year 2000 and beyond, so that some of those figures can be more accurate. Aid. Engelman asked what was on the agenda for the Monday night Rules Committee. AId. Rainey said Aldermanic Compensation, Creating a Citizens Committee to Review Cable Franchise Agreement, Methods in which to shorten Council Meetings (Aid. Moran's reference), Investigating the concept of an 18 member Council (Aid. Bernstein's reference) and a report from the Board of Ethics. Aid. Engelman said it is the responsibility of the Rules Committee to do the City ,tanager's evaluation on an annual basis and it is usually done in July. Aid. Feldman said also they were going to have an afternoon goal setting retreat. Aid. Engelman said you may want to talk on Aug. 7 about when we can get together to do the goal setting retreat and the City ;Manager's evaluation. Aid. Rainey said she would add that to the agenda. Aid. Feldman moved for adjournment. Aid. Wynn seconded. AD.IQURNMENT: Meeting was adjourned at 7:20 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francellno 5 *A I DMft not 4(wowesd MiNLIES OF THE RULPS COMAIMEE MEETING NVEDNESDAY, JULY 5. _(W 6:30 p.m, ALDERIMANIC LIBRARY Present: Aldermen S:-m,en Bernstein, Stephen Engelman. Gene Feldman. Edmund Ate Art Newrnan and Ann Rainey Presiding. Alderman A= Rainey Absent: Aldermen Denis Drummer, Joe Kent, and Melissa Wynne Staff Present: Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlcne Francellno, Mari: Franz, Hcrbert Hill, Mary Morris. and Max Rubin Guest: Mayor Morton, Mimi Peterson and Negar Tekeei (reporter %,.7th Simmer Northwestern) CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Rainey called the meeting to order at 6:45 p.m. APPROVAI. OF THE J1,LSJ 5.2000 RIINUTES, Ald. Feldman moved for approval of the June 5, 2000 minutes. Seconded by Aid. Bernstein. There being no further discussion, minutes were approved. FI.FIN CTI`G A CITY COV CIL BUDGET CONIITTEE AND ASSIGNING .9 RESPONS11011,ITIES: Aid. Rainey said at their last meeting the committee decided to have a Special Council Budget Committee. The committee also discussed not setting a number for the amount of members until they had heard from everyone as to their desire to serve or not to serve on the committee. Aid. Bernstein said to date no one had come forward to let him know of their interest in serving on the committee. At this time Aid. Newman. Scrnstein, Engelman, Feldman, and Rainey volunteered to serve. Aid. Engelman said that Ald_ Moran specifically stated that he did not want to scr%-e on the committee. Aid. Rainey asked if anyone knew if Aid. Drummer, Kent or Wynne were interested in serving? The response was no. Aid. Rainey said they would leave the number of members open until they heard from them. Aid. Rainey opened the floor for discussion on the committee's responsibilities. Aid. Newman said the responsibilities ought to be the main policy issues on the budget, which are how much revenue is going to be increased and/or how much service needs to be cut in order to reach some type of acceptable goal whether it is 0% or 4%. The committee ought to look at if budget cuts are going to be di;,cusscd and ways in which the budget may be cut as opposed to raising taxes. Other responsibilities arc trying to come up with the amount of money that ought to be spent on capital projects and trying to help prioritize what the priorities ought to be. Aid. Rainey said she would Iike the committee to have regular reports from the finance director about revenue coming in and is it meeting the goal they set for the budget. Draft not approved R Aid. Engelman said he wanted to know from the City Manager if there was something that the staff would suggest this subcommittee look at, discuss, make decisions or give guidance on that would be a benefit to him in helping to devise the preliminary outlines of the budget. The City Manager said he thought that Aid. Newman included part of that in his comments. The City Manager stated that they would like the overall — what is going to be the philosophy on taxes. increases versus cuts. Also, are there guidelines on zero tax increases, minor tax increases, and cost of living increases. The City Manager thought that the biggest thing they would Re to do Was put it in the context of multi -year projection, not just one year at a time. Because when making decisions, it would be a policy that they could live with and know that it would sustain them more than a year at a time, rather than getting by one more year. Aid. Engelman asked if the City Manager thought the committee could come up with service priorities before putting numbers to them or could that wait until after putting numbers to them? The City Manager said service priorities sometime take a lot of time and do not produce too mucb activity and product. We all agree which services are most important. The question is how much of each service. You then get down to those services that are not important to somebody, that are important to somebody else. It is very difficult to cut something. It may be easier to start with the gross numbers and the gross policy and see how they fit into it before deciding how much time they want to spend going down each individual service level. Capital on the other hand should be done just the opposite, they do need to took at the long-range priorities of the community and try to put their capital needs in a major order. Aid. Newman said there are sonic areas in which there are potential savings. For example, Sanitation, there are two philosophies, one is privatize and the other is to try and save money within the department and not privatize. He would see this committee following -up with the staff' _ to sec what is happening in those two areas and try and stay on top of things. The other one, depending on the referendum results on the Township, he sees no reason that a lot of what Emergency does should not be consolidated with the Township. For example, if these are two initiatives proposed by members of the Council on how to save money, he would see this committee attempting to follow-up with staff in terms of what staff is doing to look at these _ things. Try to do it throughout the year instead of when they get the complaint in January and have gone through their ideas, because then there is not enough time to handle them. Aid. Newman said he would see this committee among other things looking at those types of issues. Potential revenue increases would also be on the table throughout the year. But if they get started early they would know in September that the City Manager is going to have to recommend a 10% increase in the property tax in order to balance. He said they need to get started as early as they can on this committee to try and avoid that scenario. He did not see them sitting down and going through all 114 services. It is a useless exercise in his mind, because thsy already have done that and did nothing with the list. Aid. Feldman said he couldn't argue with anything that had been said, except he wanted to exercise what the City Manager said. He views this as a committee that looks at a long-term view and deals with each individual year as it comes up. But within the perimeters of a budget policy that they establish for a period of time and see how closely they can come to maintaining that budget policy. Going through it each year at a time is just exactly that, it doesn't mean that they have a policy, it means that they do what has been done on a regular basis, which is to see how much money they need and how much money they have. They've been doing that now, the difference is that they would be doing it maybe a little bit before that, and maybe by a smaller 2 Drof t not,appmved coup. What he would like to see is that, plus n long-terni policy, guided to n great rmtml by the information they get from the staff about what they are goinw to need. Wt ut the cconutttics of the community looks like and even recommendations as to hone they can htst achieve that u-ver a song period of time. As each year approaches and they measure what the trality of that .Near is. vdth the budget policy then he could see them tine tutting, etc. And nis%-boat times adjust the policy. But he would like to see a long-range policy that they can try to sti;A to. Md. Newman said this would be a good committee to keep posted on the prugttiss of rsdt project after they've passed the capital improvement budget, so they can have answcn, to give the constituents. Some of these projects do not get done when they're been passed. He knows the outpost has been one, and the street lighting which was discussed at the first meeting of this Council and four years later he didn't know how man}- lights have beat changed. Ald. Rainey asked if they should take the comments of the survey into account? She noted they [mod not talked about how they felt about the survey because they had not had a chance to head it v►-ten it was presented Aid. Bernstein said this committee probably would also be the likely place to have people come to follow-up on not only capital improvements that haven't been accomplished yet, but also line it-ms in the budget for which the funds have not been expended. If they go 6, 7 or 8 months into the budget without having hired a particular employee, they should know about that. Aid. Rainey said that is what she meant when she said they should get regular reports on the revenue and the expenditures. The year-to-date report is one way to keep track. Aid. Newman said his initial reading of that survey was that they had been responding to those priorities. A top priority was the downtown parking and they had bent over backwards on parking to have the highest level of security, the best site lines, cameras and lighting, and tried to expand the number of spaces. Aid. Rainey said the survey showed that people were very happy with the parks, and various other things. She felt that they should take that into consideration and maintain whatever level of sen ice where people have high rates of satisfaction. That is very important. Aid. Newman said the survey showed that people were satisfied with the maintenance also, which was very surprising. He suggested that every committee should look at the survey. Aid. Engelman said he would assume that the staff looked at the survey in tcrrns of judging itself and in terms of looking at where they need to concentrate their resources in developing the proposed budget. Ald. Rainey asked about the frequencies of the meetings. Aid. Bernstein suggested more frequent meetings at first to set guidelines, but they might not have the information generated as frequently as they want to meet. Aid. Rainey thought that if they met they would get the information. AU Feldman said that at the first meeting each member should have their own ideas and the City Manager should come with what he believes the committee can assist with. The committee agreed to meet on July 19 at 7:00 p.m. in the Aldermanic Library. his_ Barry stated that there was a Flood & Pollution Control meeting on that date and Aid. Kent and Drummer serve on that committee. Aid. Rainey suggested holding the meeting on the 31 Wednesday unless Aid. Kent or Drummer wants to be on it and then they would move it to the 2°d Wednesday. Q Draft not apfm ved jr SELECTION OF A NFGOTIATIING 1E= M FOR NORTUNNIESTF RN UNIVF:RSlIx DISCUSSIONS: Aid. Bernstein reported that he had spoken to Gent Sunshine ►vho » as the liaison for Dr. Menem Mr. Sunshine informed him that Dr. Bienen ►%-ss out of town until August 1, but had draftee# a letter and would have a response for them prior to that time. Aid, 13=stein suggested that the committee goes for►vard and chooses a team or at least parameters of a team and get ready. Aid. Rainey said that was her intent for the evening. She asked if the ccnimittee had discussed how many people would serve on this team or what the make up was to he? Aid. Bernstein said no. Aid. Feldman said he didn't think a committee should be formed until there was willingness expressed on the part of the University. To form a team and wait for NW to decide whether they were going to do it, was unproductive. Once they have a response, if in fact negotiation is possible, then form a negotiating committee and proceed. If there is none, then they will have to figure out another response. Aid. Rainey disagreed. She thought that it would give them another opportunity to communicate with NW again and say that the following people are ready, willing and able to meet with you at your earliest convenience. She would like to see NW do their fair share on this whole issue. Aid. Newman was not sure they should call it a negotiating team. He suggested it be more of a committee to tend to the fair share. Who we want on the committee, depends on what specifically is being negotiated. If it is limited to the fair share issue, then they want people on the Council who understand the budget the best, to be able to articulate the Council's view on that. He believes there are Aldermen who would negotiate away everything in his ward in terms of land use. Land use in his mind was not to be negotiated. He felt some Aldermen had no concern about what happens outside their wards. They vote certain ways to protect interests of their constituents when it is in their ward and vote other ways when it is outside their ward. He knows NW is consumed with landuse issues and wants the people in his ward to be completely protected in the process. He served on one of these committees before and heard the suggestion offered by NW to vacate Hinman Avenue in his ward, which shows what can happen. Another question Aid. Newman had was should there be citizens on this committee and that depends on the meetings being open. If NW takes a position that they are not interested in open meetings that will be a difficult situation because he does not see how they will discuss any budget matters in closed session. If he knew absolutely that this committee was not going to attempt to negotiate any land issue in his ward, then he would have a different view as to whether he wanted to be on the committee. He wants to make sure whoever is on this committee will advocate for an overall City position that protects his ward. If NW does not want to negotiate, a committee should be put together that will go forward and look at the issue of how to obtain a fair share from NW. Aid. Rainey said she didn't see the first action of this negotiating team sitting at a table with Mr. Sunshine and whomever else they put out to talk to them. There must be a formulation of a philosophy and an approach, etc. The longer this is dragged out the less likely that is going to — happen this year. She noted the issue had been on the Rules Committee agenda for a long time. It seemed to her that there was some underlying issue that she was not privy to, or she was overlooking, as to why they arc not willing to take this step. Ald. Newman asked if Aid. Rainey interpreted his remarks as not wanting to get started? Ald_ Rainey said it sounded like he and others want to hold back until NW laid out their plan. She = 4 A. broft net approved wants to take the leadership role and drive this event, but mw others w-aiting to bet NW to la} their cards out on the table before they res;xm,&d. Aid. Newman said he had no problem grtting , tmrtcd. but "-anted to know ►►•hat he was gating going on. If they need to spend additional tim;: outside of this hour to hammer out g6:lkly wh= was expected of this team or the things thc%- «rre going to be doing, he would be glad to do that quickly. He didn't want his remarks to be ckns>:tued as not %,--anting a.vmtnittee to go &Nr%mTd. Aid. Rainey said that is what she thought. Aid. Rainey did not see how this negotiating team could make any deals on land USO without coming to the Council. She said the committee could listen and bring back NAV's suggestions, such as the idea about vacating Hinman. She did not think that there ►►-as any way this tram could authorize or commit to anything alone those lines. But you can't keep NW from asking. Aid. Newman said he was not saying that. He was trying to say if NW is going to ask, there he wanted to be at the table. He was not saying he didn't want to go forward. Aid. Bernstein said the committee is going to negotiate as told by the Council, whomever sits on it. They arc not going to have any more leeway than given by the Council. This committee or Aldermen or citizens was not going to set the policy. He thought it was a good idea to start studying the issues so they could go to the meeting ready to ask for that which they want to receive. Though the formulation of the committee is important, he felt the real important thing was, what do we want from them, what is a fair share? He said there has been some good material put forward by the Fair Share Committee. That is what we should be doing now, preparatory to anything, because when it comes time to sit down and negotiate NW is going to say what they want. We've got to decide what it is now that we need from them and what we think is a fair share. The committee is our liaison, they report to us and they are only given the authority that we choose to give them. It doesn't matter who is on the committee; it has to come back to the Council far anything. Aid. Rainey suggested it would be more efficient to formulate the committee so the discussions could take place with the committee. This way it has to be hashed out and then the committee has to come back to be hashed out. Aid. Bernstein said he had no problem forming the committee, but we are going to sit here and hash it out anyway. Aid. Feldman said there is a huge difference between a committee being given a charge and then having the responsibility to come back to the Council. The kind of involvement and subtle negotiations that occur and are accepted, just accepting the concept, just listening to the idea of a land use exchange is a policy decision. He had been in negotiations and has seen what happens — when reports arc made and finally a conceivable negotiated settlement that comes back to the Council. And if you arc not thereat the creation, it is awfully hard to rewrite the deal. Beczuse you don't know which part is the deal break and which is not. After a year and a half of negotiations with NW, and somebody says I don't like that or they can't handle that, they can't say "wait a second we will go back now and start all over". Certain guidelines should be set out in front for this committee. Aid. Feldman did not know if NW was willing to do that or not, and didn't want his remarks interpreted as indicating that he didn't think they should move forward. But he said you have to remember that there are two partners in this. There is a tune and music; we might have to do what has to be done regardless of who our partner is and see if there are any steps we could tale. He agreed that this Council and perhaps this committee has a function irregardless of the position that NW might take. If NW is not going to want to get in the arena and begin to deal with it, we 5 k Clef t Mt cpprcye L� can't leave the issue lying on the floor. We still have to go ahwt uivs in aRich %uG c eiTect whatever it is that we want. We have been struggling ftir a l%Nrg ti.--. 110wLti3d MA n'sthe mat on whether or not this committee should be formed befQr: or .L.4=. 1'tut u-4s t of a rig issut: with him. Aid. Rainey said it would not look good in the press if the issuer gut rspccialhy if r k�tt people didn't want to form the committee. Aid. Feldman said in addition, if they are going to form the cLmmirre to not deal w-itb these issues. Have this body deal with the issues to decide what form they air going to w= for the negotiations, what form is absolutely necessary for them to continue dealing with wham er specific subjects and the kind of things that must occur. Aid. Rainey asked if all would be willing to hold a special Rules Committee meeting with only this item on the agenda. Everyone agreed. Aid. Newman said he would like to sez this special Rules Committee move for.%wd with accumulating the information they need. Example: Dr. Bicnen made the statement that his Trustees would never permit a contribution to the City. We know that the Trustees of the University of Illinois permit over a million dollars a year, in addition to go to the City of Urbana. That is a public university, which has a lot more restrictions than a private one. Dr. Bienen's position was felt by Aid. Newman to be nonsensical because he had not even asked them. and the idea that NW's Trustees can not contribute to a fire department and the University of Illinois can, makes no sense. Aid. Newman wished to move forward on the information and be able to present the case twofold. First, he wanted to present what other Universities arc doing in a very definite way; and second for the committee to formulate the basis for which to seek a contribution. He suggested looking at the thousands of people that live in university housing which are not on the tax rolls. There could be a formula that they could come up with to justify their position. Aid. Rainey hoped they could devote an entire night to this. Aid. Feldman agreed, saying he thought that the City Manager and staff should have something to contribute. Everyone agreed to hold a special Rules Committee meeting on July 31 at 6:30 p.m. The City Manager clarified that the staff assignment was to compile everything in the files and let the committee know what they have. Aid. Rainey said yes, they might not be able to deal with everything, but will try. 121SCUSSION OF WIN LEBJ.R I-AWSUI',; Aid. Rainey noted receipt of a document from Herb Hill tonight. Mr. Hill explained the matcrial submitted to the Manager's office on Friday was too late for the packets. What was in the packet is the lawsuit, which the City obtained on June 12 of this year. Mr. Hill stated that there is a memo from our law clerk discussing a legal concept that may pertain to the lawsuit. As well as an Arlington Heights case from 1967. An Illinois Supreme Court case that lent some light as to the legal basis for any type of action. First, the lawsuit itself is a three -count lawsuit filed by Winkler against Mimi Peterson. The first count alleges statements made at a City Council meeting. The second count alleges statements made in a letter mailed to the Mayor, Aldermen and City Manager. Third count alleges statements made to a member of the media at a site in the City of Evanston. Our research came up with a 1967 Illinois ll Omft not Qpfymved Supreme Court Case that expressed the concept of a qualified privilr,gc. by a citizen, with tr_;Peca to comments made at a City Council meeting. Mr. Hill said they came up with no case in Illinois indicating or showing comn mts mode owlside of City Council. So at first blush there is only one count of the 3 couut a+mplaint that the ltgm basis directly applies to and that is the count of the alleged defamation made at the City Coin meeting itself. The 1967 case sets forth the proposition that it is a quaiificd inununity, by that it is meant that there is a defense to the private citizen who makes the statement va the Council floor in the form of debate or discussion. In a qualified immunity the focus of that inununitr, deals with the concepts known as actual malice. The plaintiff, the individual Citing the action to obtain a favorable result, has to defeat the qualified or conditional privilege, must show actual malice on the part of the speaker. Actual malice is more than ill will, it is an intent to cause harrm It is a very high standard that is very difficult for a plaintiff generally to overcame. It can be a good defense to the speaker of the statement. Further, fir. Hill found no case showing where the City Council itself spent the money or actually defended the individual who made the statement. The 1967 Arlington Heights case, that Supreme Court Case, which set forth the principle, appears to be a Savings and Loan being sued by a bank for statements made by representatives of the Saving and Loan, he believes on the Council floor. There is no indication in that lawsuit as to who funded the attorneys in the lawsuit. The Supreme Court opinion would state the names of the attorneys involved but there is no indication that they are from the City of Arlington Heights or that the City of Arlington Heights filed and amicus brief. Aid. Rainey suggested asking Jack Siegel. Mr. Hill said in 1967 Mr. Siegel may not have bent there. When he spoke to Mr. Siegel he was not aware of the case that Mr. Hill found. What it boils down to is of the 3 counts there is a possible qualified immunity defense to one of those counts. To the other two counts he found no case law to support a qualified immunity defense and found no literature at least in Illinois setting forth that the municipality spent the money to defend the private citizen. There is nothing to preclude a private citizen on his or her own to exercise that defense, because it is a defense available to the individual. Aid. Rainey asked what would be the difference in the outcome of a situation like this when: let's say she was immune for her statements made to the Council, but were in turn also televised live and then re -run, which is media, and then with reporters present? Reporters then are reporting on her presentation to the Council? Mr. Hill said his reaction to that is that the statement was made at the Council in the course of the public discussion and that statement made in that venue would be subject to the qualified or conditional privilege. The issue here is there were statements also made in two other arenas. Aid. Rainey understood this, but said those very same comments probably could have been recorded from the live presentation before the Council. Mr. Hill said but this one case talks about the right to petition the elected body to making decision and to aid them in the decision -making process. He believed that it focused on that immediate give and take or immediate presentation at that body as opposed to some other filtering arena into that body. Aid. Newman said he didn't think this was a case of simply putting out fees for somebody being sued. Anybody who gets a city contract should know that they are subject to potential criticism. . People have the right to be wrong in a free society. He was not saying the speaker here was wrong, but they should not fear they are going to be sued, and to the extent that our public forum Draft not approved is being interfered by Winkler. He thought it ►►'c-ul i !tic appropriate for them to intervene and aA- on whatever legal basis there is. It seemed Iike thrrr is one, because of the harm to our community and our citizen comment process in pursc:;t n as allowed to vw forward, that citizens would then fear coming to our meetings. There are trany srr iecs that arc prig atized and there are a lot of contracts, we lay contracts when we dui str; cts and sidewalks. etc. tie tilt the City and our citizens have a very strong interest in intervening and trying to have the case dismissed. He asked if it would be possible in the bid process to pm, -Ode the material to the contractors that they need to understand that if they want a contract with oar City that our citizens may ut sometime be critical of their work publicly? And if a contractor dots not accept, that to hint is tin element of whether or not they are responsive and whether or not their hid ought to be accepted, Mr. Hill said any bid document can have specified language describing the nature and extent of our public comment process and what may be said. But to go a step beyond that and ask perhaps in a bid, by bidding one would forbear the right to take action if that individual believes they are grieved, he believes was beyond their power. Aid. Feldman agreed. Aid. Newman said he would like to know the answer, because it makes no sense. What if a private company is paving a street and does a lousy job or their guys were sitting around all day and people saw them and came and told us that at a public meeting and then the contractor says that is false. He would like to took at the issue further. Mr. Hill said they could do further research but his thought with respect to that was, to forebear litigation as a basis to bid on a matter is probably too great of an extension. Aid. Feldman doubted that would pass. He gave an example of a really good mural iIIustration which might be criticized, say somebody is standing up there who doesn't like them, who got into an argument with their kid or something like that and maligns there. If they are doing a good job they have a right to defend themselves. Aid. Newman said yes in the public forum, come and refute it but not sue somebody for money damages. Which is going to make a citizen think "I better not complain to the Evanston City Council because I will get slapped with a lawsuit". Aid. Feldman asked what form would intervening take? Mr. Hill said they could intervene in this case arguing, he thought, a public interest standing requirement. A different approach with the consent of the named defendant could be that the city attorneys could go in there specifically to represent that defendant on one of the three counts that applied. Aid. Newman said the third count is the one where they talked to the press, count two they sent the letter to the City Council. A letter is the same as appearing at a public forum. He felt arguably there was nothing wrong of somebody talking to the media about services not being properly delivered in Evanston. While he secs how it is not the same public forum thing, he sees that distinction. Nevertheless, he thought that the City had an interest in not having its citizens be subject to lawsuit for complaining about the dcli►•cry of public city services. Mr. Hill said contrast that to the Aldermen and elected official who have an absolute immunity for what they say on the Council floor. That absolute immunity does not then apply to all statements made by the public official in any other arena and arguably perhaps, as being approached here, is giving the private citizen a greater protection than the Aldermen and elected officials. 8 X Oroft not oppmved Aid. Engelman agreed with Ald. Feldman. The right to cTiicic,t is not equni to the right to defame or malign. Public comment is appropriate and should t►e encouraged, but along with rights come responsibilities and that is the respvnsilbility cif bring responsible about what you sn_ A contractor who is doing a good job should not have to t%c suhic`t to a deiatnutory remark for which he has no redress of law. Example: During •mac Arthur iiill'Juhn Luck Company debate over which contractor to use, people came to City Council and made some very strung statements about their opinions with regards to the quality ofcertain of those developers' work. You watt to have that. But you certainly don't want to have someone come to City Council and say don't hire that company because the manager is a child molester— if they Know it is wrong, and that is what the law of defamation is for. We don't have a right to inttrvene, do wc? This isn't intervention as of right. Aid. Engelman said so this would ha,.r to be permissive intervention. Mr. Hill said at least that. Aid. Rainey asked about another approach. Aid. Engelman said the other approach is to defend. Aid. Bernstein felt they should intervene, He thought one is an extension ofthe other. If reporter comes to you and asks a question about a statement you made in a public forum, you should be able to expand upon that statement. He was not sure what his liability would be if be goes and recites the same statement to the press that he said on the floor of the Council. But if a statement were put forth before the Board, there would be no reason for a reporter to come and question the individual who made the statement. He said everybody should be able to say about the performance of a contractor that which they will say. Aid, Engleman said which is what the law provides. Ald. Bernstein said that now the question becomes does that still allow for a lawsuit to determine whether or not there is malice. He didn't know if they could really encourage a power of streneth on anybody's right to litigate. However, if it is part of our bid package, he suspected they could do that. Whether or not — who is going to question it — nobody here has an absolutely right to deal with a municipality. He thought that with respect to this specific instance, if they don't at least make an attempt to intervene they are telling their citizenry that they are not going to welcome their statements. They are our eyes and eats and by whatever forum they get our attention, he thinks it is appropriate with respect to the dollars that arc being spent by the City. Aid. Rainey encouraged resolving this issue. Aid. Newman thought citizens have been for the most part, much closer to responsible in their criticism than outrageous. In this particular case if the person was wrong in their criticism, they didn't believe they were wrong. his. Peterson believes she was doing something in the interest of the entire community. The statements that were being made, if they were correct, were entirely in the interest and he would not want people like Ms. Peterson to be discouraged in any way from coming to us and helping us. Now if she was wrong, people even have a right to be wrong when it comes to free speech. Aid. Newman did not think in this case there was anything malicious. Aid. Engleman said who decides whether it is malicious or not, us? Aid. Bernstein said the trial of fact. Aid. Moran said the court. Ald. Bernstein said obviously, that is the problem. Aid. Engleman said when do we decide that we are going to defend or intervene, because you like the person or dislike the person? Ald. Rainey said no, they do it like every other case, they don't make a blanket decision on all lawsuits, and they take them case by case. That is what will be done here. She thought that this body had to make some kind of defensive supportive statement. V1 k Craft not appmvwd Mr. Hill said there is another alternative besides intervention. It could ver% well be that you Ask Corporation Counsel or the legal department to contact the dcf;�-,ndant's atwrncy� Provide to dote defendant the research that we have and the information that we've gathered :uW oftcr to u.&list them on that basis and not actually appear in court, not actuaRy incmase that expenditure. Aid. Newman said he want to appear in court Aid- Feldman a�-;rcC%L saying a statement has to be made and should be made by the City of Evanston, not by anodhcr dtfcnse attorney. It should be: made in their words, in their tenrt_s for the values that they espeusse and are important to them. Fist stated that in this particular case he did not have to wait on whether there is malioc. He could natt imagine that anybody looking at that record would indicate that_ But there might be some very clear cases in which they feel intervention is not warranted. Aid. Newman asked for a emotion. Aid. Moran believed that the court would be able to deduce on its own, without intervention on their part or expenditures or financial or human or any resource on their part, that citizen comment in terms of matters of public interest is to be encouraged. That goes without saying. He didn't see that they would have anything else to say within the context of the lawsuit but that_ If that is all that we have to say, he had no problem saying that. Send the judge a letter and we all sign it and say that we value to a large degree citizen comment at our City Council meetings. But the fact of the matter is that the judge will have to decide whether the statements were defamatory or not. And if they are then he will have to decide whether there was reckless disregard for truth or reckless dispute of truth. Those are things that only the court decides. So he didn't think they needed to formally intervene. Aid. Rainey mentioned the fetter and speaking with the Council. Aid. Engelman said the letter is communication with the Council and he certainly supported the citizen's right and the qualified privilege of communicating views with the Council. That kind of communication with the courts he had no problem with. Aid. Bernstein said he would move that we intervene at some level, let Air. Siegal decide whether it is by way of the amicus brief. He noted that they might not be allowed to intervene. The court may decide there is no reason for them to be there. He said they should take that action to inform the court either by intervention, if allowed, or by the sending of an amicus brief or letter from the Council wherein we stale hot- important it is to us that the citizens be allowed to address us openly and freely. In addition be advocated assisting the defense by providing any information to her counsel. He wanted to intervene actively and passively. Ald. Feldman seconded the motion, Aid. Newman wanted to be clear on the motion. He was not looking just to file an amicus brief. We have a clear interest in protecting our ability to privatize services and what that means to the public in terms of their ability to be critical or comment on, when something is privatized. He felt they have a very strong independent interest in this case being dismissed. Regardless of what some of Ms. Peterson's arguments are. He would like to see them be there through the motion stage, if they haven't missed it and then have our lawyers come back. They might be helpful on the motion to dismiss in the arguments and it would not be that expensive. Aid. Bernstein said the import of his motion is to do whatever it takes to the extent that they will let them in to intervene. 10 Druft not q-►,.proved Aid. Rainey asked Mr. Hill if he could get them some feedback on tight? Mr. RL'I slid he would not be there but Mr. Siegal would be there and could give dim-- fce►1h.1A:k. Aid. Engelman said he didn't know what the motion is. The motion is R4 inter-mne, to do +hat, as attempt to argue the merits of the case? Aid. Bernstein said the motion 4 to intcrvrnc the iza that the City has in protecting a citizen's rights before Council. Aid. En -rlman %►wetted to know what that interest was. Aid. Rainey said they would receive feedback from Mr. Siegal on Monday night. Aid. Engelman said before he voted on the motion to authorize the Cite to intervene he w=rj to know what it was they were going to do. Aid. Rainey suggested that the motion be that they �rct that feedback from Mr. Siegel on Monday night and then find a decision. Aid. Rainey said they would not vote to expend money or anything until they got the information from Air. Siegal Aid. Newman moved that this issue be placed the yellow Council agenda in the form of intervening. Motion carried. No nays. Aid. Engelman moved to adjourn. Aid. Bernstein announced John McGuire's mother passed away, the wake is tomorrow. ADJOURNMENT: Meeting was adjourned at 7:55.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Franccllno i 11 z broft not approved MINUTES OF THE RULES COMMITTEE MEETING MONDAY, JUNE 5, 200t1 n:30 P.M. ALDERMANIC LIBRARY Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Stephen Engelntan, by bent, Edmund Moran, Art Newman and Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Steven Bernstein Absent: Aldermen Dennis Drummer, Gene Feldman, and Melissa Wynne Staff Present: Maureen Barry, Patrick Casey, Darlene Franeellno, Mark Franz, Mary Moms, and William Stafford Guest: William O'Neil, Rosemary O'Neil, Mimi Peterson and Bob Seidenberg (Evanston Review) CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Bernstein called the meeting to order at 6:40 p.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MAYA. 2000: Aid. Moran moved for approval of the May 1, 2000 minutes. Seconded by Aid. Rainey. There being no further discussion, minutes were approved. REDUCING TIfE NUMBER !QF MEMBERS ON HUMAN SERVICES 8 OY AId. Bernstein said Aid. Kent had talked about being inundated with other stuff and needing not to serve on the Human Service Committee. AId. Kent said that was correct. AId. Bernstein asked if someone who was not sming on the Human Services Committee and was willing to serve in Ald. Kent's place would that work. Aid. Kent said that would be fine and that this was not in the same flavor of a switch. AId. Kent stated that the biggest thing that he had coming up in the summer was to continue working on some community safety issues. The Nation of Islam has been invited in and he has been working with the Chief as far as getting some dates to ride around the neighborhood weekly and some dates for some people in the Foster Park neighborhood area. These are things that he wants to and has to spend his time on. Aid. Rainey stated that she no longer wanted to serve on the Human Services Committee. She suggested that at a later time the committee discuss making the Human Services Committee the same as the Rules Committee. That way if everybody can't show up there would still be a quorum. Aid. Rainey said she was not ready to discuss it and that it was just a thought she had and had not yet given it that much thought. Aid. Bernstein said to his knowledge there was no penalty for non-attendance. Aid. Kent said he was absolutely sure of getting sonic type of neighborhood patrol situation going on this summer and receiving Human Services packets would absolutely tear him between two things. Once he got past the summer and the new school year things start to slow down and he possibly may have a different schedule. Aid. Bernstein took Aid. Kent's reference as a motion to reduce the Human Services Committee by one. x Draft not approved Aid. Moran said if he remembered correctly, membership numbers on the various committees were set by Council rules. He suggested that from a formal stand point this should take a motion to amend Council rules from 5 to 4 members for now to conform to Aid. Kent's desire. Aid. Newman suggested first seeing if anybody else wanted to serve on the Human Services Committee. Then if there are only 4 people who want to serve, make it 4 members. If there are only 3 people then change it to 3. The only reason the number effects anything is for the quorum. Right now because there are 5 people, the quorum is at least 3. Aid. Moran stated that he would be a little concerned about going to 3 members with the quorum of 2. in recognizing that you could end up with 2, that could very easily happen and it would be more like a discussion rather than a committee meeting and that gets pretty difficult. He revised his motion to allow Aid. Kent to withdraw from the Human Services Committee. Aid. Rainey noted that Aid. Kent would be welcomed back at anytime. Aid. Kent said that sounded great. There being no further discussion on the amended motion. Motion carried no nays. Aid. Bernstein said on the main motion they would grant Aid. Kent a leave of absent and in the meantime ask others if they would like to serve on the Human Services Committee. %lotion carried. No nays. CREATING A BUDGET C01INIITTEE AND DEVELOPING a PROCESS TO PRIORITIZE SERVICES AND INFRASTRUCTURE N,FFDS- Ald. Newman stated that Aid. Rainey had an idea that he agreed with. It basically was to expand the purview of the Rules Committee. This way everybody would serve on it and the item could be handled at the Rules Committee. To accomplish this the committee would have to formaliy� amend the charge of the Rules Committee to include the authority to review budget issues, prioritizing and whatever else. Aid. Rainey said or it could be a sub -committee of the Rules Committee and those who didn't want to participate didn't have to. She thought it was really important that everybody have an opportunity to participate. Aid. Moran said that he agreed with the general sentiment that there should be the creation of some kind of committee. He had two random thoughts — one he didn't really see the budget as coming under the purview of the Rules Committee. He didn't think it was inherent in the mission of the Rules Committee to deal with it so he didn't know why there should be a sub -committee. Another observation that he felt was pertinent was that, although all members of the Council served on the Rules Committee they always seem to just barely get by with a quorum and he wouldn't want to see that kind of situation develop. Aid. Moran emphasized that he didn't have any particular idea about the structure or make up of the committee, but whatever it %vas called, however it was made up, it was sufficiently important that the committee have its own existence. He also slated that he fully supported the idea of everyone being involved and whoever was part of this committee should make it clear that everyone should be engaged and can be engaged should they desire to come to the meetings. If it is going to be a committee as opposed to the Committee of the Whole, specific people need to be identified. The reason being that anytime members of the council get a committee assignment they then have to invest in the work of that committee, take ownership in it and be present when the meetings were held. 2 Droft not opproved Aid. Newman said he didn't see what the problem was in guying everybody on the Council an opportunity to participate and those who want to come would imme. Everybody is on the Rules Committee already and there was only one meeting where there was not a quorum that he could remember. Which means that at least 5 members of the Rules Committee had been present which was a pretty good cross section of the Council. So by making it the committee of the Rules Committee where there has been a pretty good record you would get a broader section of the Council. You then give everybody on the Council an opportunity to participate. This was his reasoning and the reason that he thought Aid. Rainey's idea was a good one, pveD-body belockes on the budget committee if they want to participate and this creates the vehicle. Aid. Rainey stated that the concept was that everybody was at the Rules Committee. She had no problem identifying the budget committee as an extremely special committee and calling it a special committee of the Council. She believed that the members of that committee should be self -nominated or sett appointed and get on with it. A group needs to work separate from Council meetings on the budget. A&PW is over%vhelmcd with agenda items and can not do justice on Council night at A&PW with the budget. The Rules Committee has the ability to appoint or to identify a special committee of the Council. She thought that the Rules Committee also had the authority to indicate how the members would be appointed and they should be self-appointed, not even self -nominated. Encourage everybody to join and meet on the most convenient evening where few other conflicts exist. Aid. Moran commented on what Aid. Newman had said earlier. He understood that generally, except for the one exception when the Rules Committee did not have a quorum. But part of the problem that he saw with everybody being on this committee was that it was a little disappointing that you have a committee of 9 and generally speaking 5 or maybe 6 show up. He stated that ifa committee was set and whatever the number 5, 6 or whatever, understanding that it is an open invitation. But still identify certain people and if they arc self -nominated or otherwise, they are on that committee and are basicaIIy expected to show up and take ownership for it and work on it. If it is to be a committee of 5 people those 5 people should try to be present for all the committees' needs. Aid. Rainey felt that Aid. Moran was identifying a problem that she did not agree with. She stated that this Council has really been committed to attendance and more than their fair share of meetings and it was pretty impressive. There have been exceptions on rare occasions and very good reasons like planes not landing, people dying, and Aid. Kent might have a teacher or parent conference - how could he possibly not be there. Aid. Moran said it is a problem in the Rules Committee. Aid. Rainey stated that she has made another suggestion that the Rules Committee create a special committee of the Council. Aid. Moran said that was a good suggestion and he agreed with it. Aid. Newman moved to create a separate budget committee, the composition and the number on the committee to be whatever Council members sign up for. Aid. Rainey seconded. Aid. Bernstein asked if this needed to go to Council? Aid. Newman stated that it needed to be determined who was willing to serve. The Rules Committee then needs to recommend to the Council that they have created another committee with the number of Aldermen on it that volunteered. Aid. Newman volunteered to serve. Aid. Engelman asked if this committee would report to the Rules Committee, the Council or to A&PW and what is the charge of the committee. Aid. Newman said the committee would report to the Council and the charge is very broad. To look at budget issues including, but not limited to 3 Draft not opprow A a budget policy, prioritization of services, capital improvement policy, infrastructure needs and whatever else and to make recommendations to the City Council and work with the City Manama on those issues. Aid. Moran made one suggestion. If the idea %vas to solicit interest in Council members and being on the budget committee he Nvas all for it. But before saying that the composition of the committee would be whoever signs up wait and see what the interest response is from the Coum--il members. Then come back and talk about the way the committee should be composed, based ora the responses. Aid. Newman said essentially if you put the Iist out and his motion is to make it whoever is interested, before the Rules Committee can make a recommendation to the Council we need to hear from all the members of the Council who want to be on it. Aid. Newman said what Ald. Moran wants to do is in essence of his motion. Because if 6 people say they %want to serve, them he would be recommending 6 people. 1f 8 people want to sen•e he would want to recommend 8 people. Aid. Moran said right and his point being that he thought before making a specific recommendation they should have a little bit of a sense of who will sign up. Let's say it was 3 people that might elicit a different response from us than if it were 8. Aid. Engelman asked if the intent would be to solicit all dissenting input and then at the next Rules Committee meeting make a recommendation to Council to establish the committee which would then be a resolution at the July 10 Council meeting or something like that? Which means that first time this committee would be meeting would be sometime at the end of July? Aid. Bernstein said yes. Aid. Engelman said his only concern is that the issues are so huge, so impending and imposing that they need to get to it sooner rather than later. The City Manager's off ice has to talk to the department heads in August. If for instance one of the policies, procedures or whatever - one of the areas that this committee is going to look at is service priority. The department heads themselves won't know what the thinking of the Council is in terms of what services each of their departments are providing in terms of ranking of priorities until sometime in August. How are the department heads going to then communicate with the City Manager? Aid. Rainey said they have never asked the Council before. Aid. Engelman understood that and that was one of the reasons why this reference was made, it was made 4 months ago, to get an early jump on this issue. Aid. Bernstein said he thought that the consensus of the Council was to commence in April with the prioritization of next years budget so they didn't have to come up to the 12th hour as they always seem to do and make less than wonderful decision or less informed decisions. Aid. Newman suggested recommending for the June 12' Council meeting that a budget committee be established, we are not sure about the number of members and can take a poll at the June 12'' meeting. The 3 Aldermen not present tonight will be notified. Then the committee could recommend to the whole Council on June 12, that the budget committee consisting of blank - members, depending on the response, be established. He ageed with Aid. Engleman that they needed to move quicker. Aid. Engelman said that would be fine. 4 Zmo br of t not c;proved Aid. Bernstein clarified the motion that was to recommend to the City Council the creatii�v% ofa budget committee to included x number of members and to meet on a trgulsr basis to discuss any and all situations relating to the budget. Aid. Engelman asked that the motion include that the committee report to the Council ae i givr a date, preferably early in the fall. Aid. Rainey suggested reporting back on a regular basis. Alit Engelman stated that he was just suggesting that there be some definitive direction -in Augu--4 and September not in December and January. Aid. Bernstein asked if the maker of the motion and the person who secondcd would except that as a firm amendment. The response was yes. Aid. Newman said he was not sure what the mport will contain, but he did not have any problem reporting, and making the minutes available. There being no further discussion. Motion carried no nays. PROPOSAL THAT LfNIITS EACH ALDERMAN FR0111 DISCUSSING ALL AGENDA ITEAIS ONCE Y 1H E MUNC111, Aid. Moran said this reference was born of a couple of different considerations on his part. One, being that our meetings go to long. And a function or perhaps a cause is that certain agenda items are discussed too much. There is a tremendous amount of repetition and going back over and rebuttal and reply and sir rebuttal and sir reply. Most of the people on the Council are able to, on agenda items get to the agenda item. Indicate what their position is, what their reasons are for taking that position, articulating that, and letting the other people on the Council who which to speak to that agenda item do the same thing and then take a vote on it. What he has seen way to frequently, in his own opinion, particularly with controversial items that arc on the agenda and in his impression is that people in town have a tendency to tune in a little bit more specifically on TV to issues that have either been publicized broadly or considered to be controversial and so on and so forth. Aid. Moran said a lot of our treatment of controversial issues end up going on into the night and we frequently take votes around midnight or after midnight and sometimes early in the morning. His own view of that, although some of these issues do require substantial discussion, what they really do is close a lot of people out from seeing it and he recognizes that those meetings are replayed and people can watch them later. But he thought that people were generally interested in seeing the debate unfold not next Saturday or two weeks from then or as it unfolds. He hears comments from people who say they try to hang in there, but when it gets to be 10:45 or 1 I:00 pm and they have to be up at 6:30 am to go to work, they just can't stay up and watch it. Ald- Engelman said I has the same problem. Aid. Moran said although he had been thinking about something like this, he could not take &.11 credit for it. He sees Congressman 5chakowsky every once in a while and was talking to her one day about the Council meeting process and she was inquiring, whether the meetings were getting any shorter. He thought she had recognized that there was a feeling in the community that she was aware of that our meetings frequently run too long. He told her that he didn't think that they were getting any shorter. She then told him that there was a rule, which he had previously been completely unaware of in the Illinois General Assembly that obviously she had experienced in bcr time in Springfield. The various Iegislators in the two houses in Springfield could only address agenda items once. She also explained that under the protocol, quite typically each of the legislators, although he thought literally speaking, they were free to address any issue that came up on the floor. But it was pretty much worked out through the leadership of the parties that only certain people would speak to certain issues on both sides. And then after that each of those 5 Ae brafi not approved people w•tre given a discreet period of time which she described to him as not long, sometimes ►M snort, as in a minute and a half. Aid. Moran said and she suggested perhaps something like that might help the meetings along. Aid. Bernstein said this item was written in such a way that he was not quite sure what it Ras explaining. lie asked if Aid. Moran was talking about we as Council members could only address an agenda item one time? Address it once and sit down or there is a selection of certain members of the committee or the Council to discuss it? And it should theoretically conform to our time limitation as also contain in the rules? Aid. Nforan said that that would be good also. Aid. Rainey stated that this Council should not be compared to the Illinois Legislature. The way that they function is insulting and if one -tenth of that body were as smart as one-half of this Council they might be worth listening to. They have no idea of what they are talking about and are not informed of the issues. She stated that she gets very concerned whin community members want to silence members of the Council that represent them and she did not believe that was the truth. As a matter of fact she knows people who stay up real late at night, people who tape Council meetings so they can watch them at their Ieisure, and people who watch reruns and think they are watching it live. But to try and stifle this Council is to really make a terrible mistake. Some of the debate is very frustrating, however, it is still people's opinions. She is willing to listen to them and put her 2 cents in, Maybe at 1:00 am in the morning, you might want to put a 5 or 10 minutes limit to a person. But to say that you can only speak once on a subject is really (lies in the face of tite definition of debate. It is not a debate, it is standing up and making a speech and that is not what is generally done when there is a hot topic. Aid. Newman said everyone contributes to the length of the Council meetings. He was frustrated at the last meeting because the special awards for the police took so long and it was the same night of the Historic District issue and the Council meeting did not start until 9:30 or 9:45 pm. He felt this was to put limitations on certain members of the Council. He gave an example that Aid. Rainey has asked questions of P&D on why this was done and why that was done, she sat down, listened to the response and maybe she wanted to get up again. Maybe there is a person on the Council who wants to say something, listen to the debate, and then make an amendment to the main motion. Maybe there is a member of the Council who wants to make some other type of motion. This way tics our hands. There have been times during Council debate where certain members of the Council have represented very blatant inaccuracies of fact to the community. Any member of the Council after they have spoken should have the right to correct those misstatements, especially if they are out there for the public, or at least get another view on that factual issue. The Council rules provide for, on certain issues, that you can limit debate. You can make a motion at any time that an issue should be debated for 20 minutes. There are complaints about the lengths of Council meetings and we have handle some very serious issues that sometime take more time, more discussions, and they take more ways of looking for creativity. He is swilling to spend as much time as necessary on any issue of importance to get it right, to hear from the staff, and to hear from members of the Council. Even if Council meetings need to start earlier. Or look at the length of meetings including everything special awards ceremonies and things like that. Aid. Moran had a couple of quick commentaries. He appreciated the discussion and also looked for%%wd to any other contributions that anybody else on the committee might have, by way of suggestions to shorten the meetings. Pan of his motivation in putting this on the agenda was because he thought it was a discussion they need to have. All agreed with that. [1 Ic Draft not approved `Ald. Moran commented on Aid. Rainey's remark. He said this was not a suggestion on his part to stifle debate. It was an attempt on his part and the way he described it was to give some form and perimeters to debate. It only makes since that there needs to be limits to debate. There have been many nights where debate has gone on and he diet not see wisdom growing during the debates. He saw %%isdom declining at times during debate, lie didn't always describe length of debate a.a leading toward prudent public policy. And to Ald. Nc%vman's comment, this was obviously not meant to address or short circuit any of the procedural situations that he referred to. For instance Aid. Rainey would ask a member of P&:D to explain the situation. Aid. Moran stated that in his view that would not count as something that should be interrupted or forestall that person getting their two cents in. Council rules already contemplate that if for instance someone amends an ordinance or they amend a proposed resolution, we always have a separate debate on those amendments and then return to the main motion. His suggestion is that people get their 2 cents in and take the votes. Aid. Rainey stated that the person who runs Council meetings is the Mayor. The Mayor has control or lack of control over those meetings. Sometimes the Council gets away with murder. Another person running the meeting might have more control over it or might be willing to exert more control over it.t The meetings could be run differently, and as a result may be shorter, she didn't think the Mayor always used her power as some others might. She would not object in some cases to the Mayor exerting more control of the meetings. Aid. Neuman said he would be very glad to have a discussion about why the meetings are as long as they are and tape all suggestions. Look at what we are doing at the meetings and try to factually identify why the meetings are going as long. Aid. Engelman seconded. Aid. Bernstein tended to agree with respect to new issues or new statements. He gets a little tired when people reiterate and say again what they have previously said to the extend that they are going to respond to something new, he doesn't want to stifle that debate. But clearly people who make statements try and get it back into the front of the pack. Those kinds of things he wished that the Mayor would address. Aid. Engelman said he appreciated Aid_ Moran's motivation for making this reference. The idea that needs to be addressed is a broad range of ideas about how to get more control over the length of our meetings. While the motivation is allowable, the actual suggestion of only one Aldermen speaking is probably not workable or appropriate. He would hoped that the Chair would keep this item on the agenda. Aid. Bernstein said the issue would be rephrased and kept on the agenda. Because he thought that Aid. Moran stated that this was just one method of shorten the meetings. Aid. Newman said there needs to be a lot of time spent on this issue, because you have to look at whole things. For example in Champaign and Urbana, their Council meets every Monday night. One Monday night is just votes and the other Monday night is just discussion by everybody for 6 or 7 hours. Aid. Bernstein suggested that everyone investigate different methods and bring them back for a fuller debate at the next meeting. 7 r 'I Draft not approved SELECTION OF A NEGOTIATING TEAM FOR NORT11VVESTERN DISCUSSIONS: Aid. Bernstein reported that the letter had been sent to President Bienen on the 4' of May and he had not yet received a response. Aid. Bernstein askod for the authority of the Rules committee to send certified mail, a follow-up letter attaching a copy of the former letter and asking for a response. Aid. Moran suggested calling President Bienen instead of sending a letter. Aid. Bernstein said he would do that. Dm tTi7I�'fiti �L ll{ MU1GATI\G THE CONCEPT OF AN 18 i♦1 AIBER COU\CIL. Aid. Rainey stated that this was not her item and did not want her name associated with it. When it was first mentioned she stated that she was not interested in an I&member council. Aid. Bernstein stated that it was his item. Aid. Engelman stated that he had heard from a variety of citizen groups on the explanation of wanting an I8-member Council. Aid. Newman stated that the issue could be voted on as part of the reference as to whether or not the Rules committee recommends to the Council placing a refercndum. Council generated, `on the ballot. It was decided that this issue would be discussed at the next Rules Committee meeting - ADJOURNMENT, Meeting was adjourned at 7:35 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francelino 9 �A 1 Draft not approved MINUTES OF THE RULES CO'+ MITTEE MEETING r1ONDAY, MAY 1, 201h1 6:00 p.m.. ALDEnIANIC LIBRARY Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Drum. L,:ummcr, Stephen Engelnum, Gene Feldman, Edmund Moran, Art and Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Steven Bernstein Absent: Aldermen Joe Kent and Melissa 14'\T= Staff Present Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno, Mark Franz and Patrick Casey Guest: Rick Steinberg, Harry Shubart, Liz Aus in (Daily NW), Briars Cox (Tribune) and Mimi Peterson !CALL. to QRDER: Aid. Bernstein called the meeting to order at 6:15 p.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF AP131 L 3_ 2000• Aid. Moran moved to approve the minutes of April 3, 20DO. Seconded by Aid. Newman. There being no further discussion, minutes were approved. REVIEW OF LETTER TO -NORTHWESTERN: Aid. Bernstein distributed copies of a proposed letter to Dr. Henry Bienen on behalf of Northwestern University, which was discussed at the last Rules Committee meeting. Aid. Bernstein said the consensus of those who were at the last Rules Committee meeting was in fact that the committee did have a mandate by the vote of the referendum. Pursuant to that vote the committee decided to follow the advisory referendum and make contact with Northwestern with regards to negotiations about some contribution to the City. He opened the floor for questions, comments, or proposed changes. Aid. Engelman stated that the referendum as he understood it, asked, and the community voted overwhelming to urge City Council to negotiate with Northwestern University for a payment of their fair share of taxes. He wanted to know why in the third paragraph of the letter it seemed to converse larger than merely the issue of a payment of money for their share of City services? Aid. Bernstein said he thought that was discussed at the last meeting. He explained that the letter was asking NW what they want, opening discussions. He said in the spirit of negotiations, we should have a conversation with them, which should include things they might want to talk about. Why is it not limited to? He said it could be limited, and he thought that would be counter- productive, because ultimately he thought that prior to the referendum they had talked about establishing a link, some form of communication with Northwestern. He thought this was the appropriate time, the referendum was giving the appropriate vehicle. If we want to do it, we could hold fast to the initial argument in the referendum then go from beyond. Aid. Newman said he had read five different press reports, and did not know if the information was true or not, but according to the press reports Northwestern would not talk about money only. Dratt not approved He said NW feels that they have some mutual issues that they want to discuss. Aid. Ne►vmatt sand that he would like to know what are those issues. For example, if NN%1►wants to talk alxiut payin the city money so that the Bears can play at Dyche Stadium, when Soldier hindi is poing under construction. Before we send a negotiating team to talk with them. we have to have our o►►u discussion to see whether or not that's an issue we'd even be willing to talk about. if that came back in their Ietter as an issue that they would like to discuss. A big issue is that they don't likr the fact that dormitories and fraternities are a special use in the T-2 district on Sheridan Road. If they want to talk about that then we need to know about it. We might understand the money issue, but we need to know how we're going to respond on issues like that. Aid. Engelman said that he didn't want to leave any misunderstanding but the Bears playing in Dyche Stadium (Ryan Field), is neither going to happen, nor is it a desire of Northwestern University for it to happen based upon his conversations. He merely asked the question, because he wanted to get an understanding, whether it was the sense of this committee that this letter and the negotiations would be on issues beyond that which he envisioned were subsumed in the referendum. What he saw in the referendum and said it when the language was drafted, was a narrow issue of payment of money from them to us. If it is the committee's desire to discuss, and feel this is what our constituents want us to discuss, other issues beyond their payment of money, it was all right with him. Aid. Moran stated that his remarks to a large degree follow on Aid. Engelman's. It ►vas his understanding that the letter was being formulated, whether it is this one or some other one, in response to the results of the referendum. The referendum question asked should the City send a negotiating team. Then there was debate about whether it should be negotiating for it to have discussions. Either way, a negotiating team to get Northwestern to pay its fair share of services delivered by the City to the university community. Based on that, and if his assumption was correct the letter should be in response to the results of the referendum. He would assume that the letter would say to NW "We think this is your fair share of the services that we provide to you. We value it at say fifty million dollars, and we'd like to start talking to you about it, here's our team and we'll be over Thursday!" Aid. Moran said he didn't see why Northwestern should be asked what they want to talk about. Because the referendum had nothing to do with what Northwestern would want to talk about it said the City should negotiate for a fair share of their costs of the services we provide to the university. Again if this letter is predicated on the referendum. In the third paragraph it says: "While the impetus for such a dialogue is the referendum mandate", we would assume that would be the case, "we believe that it could serve as an opportunity to open a continuing dialogue for the betterment of both parties." In that instance, if that were the case, and quite frankly from his perspective of why he voted against having a referendum is that he thought that maybe it would make sense to do that to start with. But now we've had a referendum, which says we ought to go and negotiate a fair share for the cost of services they get. Aid. Rainey said she thought the letter was almost apologetic. The tone was way too timid, her idea of the correct letter, would be about three sentences, maybe with a little flourish, but very short, very sweet. It was never her intention to ask for a fair share for city services received by the university. If that were the case, she would certainly like her property tax bill adjusted, to reflect the city services she receives. We're talking about a contribution from NW to help in running of the City of Evanston. Furthermore, our property taxes, is not the primary source of the money it takes to run this City. The city receives revenue from many other sources. F, 3C � C-Z", ri'm 3PPz-ved Aid. Engelman said that Ald. Rainey did mare it clear all along that her intent wws m t z tnoctewy contribution tied to the delivery of services or what services «err actual M-ev, :�. Heal that if you are going to have a dialogue with the linivmin• that the dialogur should r,'t be limited to some monetary value that you could put on police or titr or %%hatc►er :h sr" vccs are The dialogue should be free ranging and that a eoutribution %%ell in exec-; of the .NUt of fire services to the University would now be inappropriate. The rrfrrcnJum questi,.m :hst Stl°v of our constituents answered was compcnsation for services. Aid. Newman also agreed with Aid. Rainey aN-sut chat it cost to provide scrvicc-- in thii community. That is the fundamental disagreement to a lame extent that the ciry has with N«', He felt that whatever NW does on water sales tax and things hire that arc adcqu:r:- He is hardly in favor of any negotiating team going there unprepared, not knowing what the issues are going to be without the community and the rest of the Council knowing what mv'm sending them theme for. He had no problem sending them a letter saying that we it ant to talk about %hat they ought to pay in terms of what is fair, in terms of the services proN ided by the City of E%- nston to the community. He has heard repeatedly from NW that this is something they arc cot going to get into, Aid. Rainey said she didn't care if the money carve through this City, a check wTir..en out to the City of Evanston, or if they handle that expense in some other way, If you're going to send a negotiating team to get support for our inability to fully fund all the services required to run this City, then we're going to have conversations about other ways to do it, in addition to cash. She stated that in extremely good faith we should send our team over to have the meeting that is set up as a response to this letter. Have those people, have the discussion with them and come back with whatever it is that they put out on the table, but not by trying to send them a letter carefully crafted. Aid. Bernstein proposed a change to the letter. He said leave the first paragraph and eliminate the second paragraph. In the third paragraph where it reads ''*gr .would, propose lhat at = earliest Mutual ronvenlence M meet IQ discuss this J= w d others ash may arise". climinate the rest of that paragraph and where it says "tve took forward to a response". ell inete that and W in its Qittce. "please contact the undersigned to schedule a meeting." Aid. Newman asked about open meetings. Aid. Bernstein said next to the second half of the last sentence add, "It would lip wz desire Ja httld meeting in an anen Meetings format W= cgntaCt.LUgndersip.nediQlcbtdtilCamectine, Aid. Bernstein asked if there were any discussion. Aid. Drummer said just send the letter and be done with it. He said that the University had stated in a lot of correspondence that he had seen, not that they have been sent to him, but letters and stuff that NW had sent out stating that they wanting to talk to the City. They have also talked a lot about if they weren't able to talk and get some resolution on the Preservation ordinance they didn't want to talk at all. We need to think about all those issues. Aid. Bernstein asked if there was any opposition to the letter as amended and under whose signature? Aid. Engelman said it is coming from the Rules Committee, Aid. Bernstein could sign the letter as Chairman of the Rules Committee an the committee's vote of the Rules Committee. 3 Dratt not approw-ad Ald_ Rainey said negotiations can't be determined in advance, ot,tierwise we Nmouldn't be negotiating. Let's get to the table and see what happens. We want to win. We air gmitti into tWis saying chat we want to come back better OiTthen %vhen vve went in. a There was a question of who should be carbon copied and the decision was nude to send the letter to Dr. Henry Bienen and he could distribute the letter to whom ever he choosez, Ald. Bemstein called for a vote of the Rulc,c Committee sending the letter as amended and over the signature of its chair. Motion was carried. No nays. UISCUSS: WHETHER OR,JQ V To RESPOND -TO t_,E_TTER,S ALLEGING VIOLATIONS OF THE OPEN MEETINGSAT, This issue was Ald. Feldman's in reference with respect to whether or how to respond to the lcm= alleging violation of the open meetings act. Mr. Steinberg from the 4" ward said he assumed that the City had received the letter from the Assistant States Attorney to Herb Hill, First Assistant Corporation Counsel regarding four instances of violations of the open meetings act. Mr. Steinberg sent a letter to the City stating that he thought portions of those minutes that had been found in violation should be released. He reiterate that for two reasons they should be released l) it is the law, the States Attorney did not suggest a remedy, except to do a better job in the future. He thought that a remedy should have been suggested to release those portions of the minutes that were found in violation. That is kind of a legal argument. Mr. Steinberg said the other reason is the spirit of the Council. You are our neighbors, you are our elected representatives and open government is very important in America and in Evanston. There are so many executive sessions. Tlx Economic Development Committee meetings have executive sessions and there are executive sessions with every City Council meeting. He was not sure about other committee meetings, but citizens like him who want to understand how the city is working feel shut out and they should not be. The City is spending tons of our money, whether it is %ith the Hill project or Shaw negotiation and citizens should know about it. He continued by stating that maybe there are certain aspects that the Council feels, to give them a better negotiating position, have to be in executive session. Mr. Steinberg said in the spirit of openness there should not executive sessions whether it is an EDC meeting or a City Council meeting unless you have a very specific and lawful reason. Even if citizens disagree with what the Council does, if it was done in an open manner there would not be so much anger and suspicion because it will be open. Ald. Feldman said the general ethic is exactly the one that Mr. Steinberg described. There has never been to his knowledge anybody sitting at this table that has decided to go into executive session for other than reasons than those stated by Mr. Steinberg. When Mr. Steinberg said "absolutely necessary" those are the conditions that he thought they had. Does that mean he wasn't mistaken or that mistakes haven't been made? Certainly not, but as far as he was concerned there was an aura of legitimacy and necessity for every executive session and he will continue to use that. Because of this issue we will pay very special attention. Again each time a possible executive session has been scheduled, he thought about it and said is this really necessity. Maybe there is an addition level that we could go through, but never ever has there been an attempt to go into executive session to either evade or avoid public scrutiny. That is the reason he brought it forth. It requires a public response indicating that the Council has not gone 0 x Draft not approved into executive session with the purpose of denying the public access to that information other than in the way that the law- "- specified. This deserves a public response and should be signed by the members of City Council, the CityManager or all of us in regard to this. Aid. Moran said the Council would have to do this formally, but he would make a motion for the committee to recommend to the Council that those portions of the minutes that were found in violation of the open meetings act to be released to the public. Ald_ Engelman seconded. Aid. Newman explained to Mr. Steinberg that when this Council started in I997, one of the rule changes put into effect were the extensiveness of the minutes. Minutes taken by the prior City Clerk were basically what w&e to happen in executive session minutes. The Council insisted that the quality of the minutes and derails of the minutes taken in executive session be the same quality as those done in our meetings in the chamber. If you were to go back aad look at our minutes you will find that the extensiveness of our minutes have radically changed since 1997 when this Council started. The reason for that was that many of us were very concerned that anything that we had to say on an issue that was legitimately in closed session, we wanted the public to be able to find out what we said on the issue, for the issue of accountability. We didn't want anything being done to hide anything. Aid. Newman continued by stating that in his years prior to 1997 on the Council, it was a major issue to him to get the open meetings act complied with. Something else is that probably 99.9 % of the cases that get on the agenda in closed session are put there by the City Manager's office. Very rarely does an Ald. on this Council plan and ask for a thing. The City Manager basically sets our agenda and the Council generally walks into a meeting, not knowing what is going to be in executive session. Here is an example on the Hill project where we contracted with Hill for the use of Lot 18. After we executed that contract we had the opportunity for a better project on Lot 18 and the issue that comes up is that HiII was suppose to get about 18 thousand square feet in retail. Hill has the development rights. The Council had to figure out how to get Hill to cooperate with this other project that had now been placed on the agenda, the MacDougall project. Staff goes to negotiate with them over the price of that real estate issue -- if we had that discussion in public, Hill would have the ability to know exactly how we were thinking. For example, we might say to the City Manager offer them I00 thousand dollars. This is not what was done, but we are willing to pay 200 thousand dollars, but would like to get it for the city for 100 thousand dollars. if we had an open discussion about that we would be doing a disservice to the citizens as taxpayers. Aid. Newman said generally what the open meetings act says is that you arc allowed to keep minutes confidential until the issue has been resolved. The only minutes to his knowledge that haven't been released up until this point is where we have gotten the advice of our legal counsel that those issues arc still pending. Mr. Steinberg said he understood and appreciated his comments and does understand that negotiations are very tricky in that manner. He had this feeling that more than negotiations, particularly Nvith Hill and Ktutznick updates or what is going on with Shaw. If you are negotiating dollars or even discussing strategy than that is important to keep that secret until it is' finalized. But if you are just getting an update on a project whether it is good news or bad news it should not be kept from us. 5 2 Draft not approved C Ald. Newman said say on the Klutznick project, if the update involved the ability of Mr. Klutznick to acquire a certain piece of land and we are getting an update on that. The update is the Osco piece of property. What would you want us to do on that? Rick Steinberg said he didn't know enough to give the best answer. but he would tell Mr. Klutznick that we are an open community and i f you are liming trouble that shouldn't be such a secret and we will go with it. When you are having a closed session and you stray ofFthe subject and that is going to happen, you can release those parts in which you stray. Aid. Newman had no problem ,%ith that. Aid. Feldman said in most cases on the Economic Development Committee agenda there is a Klutznick or Hill update and that is all in public. Ms. Aiello. Mr. Crum, Mr. Marino or someone gives the update in public. There may be issues that are very specific regarding these specific negotiations or regarding land or litigation or something like that. But Klut=iick updates should not be called in executive session. In other words it should be referred to as exactly what it is. Aid. Feldman said as long as he has been associated with the Council, this is a body that makes mistakes, but tries to do the best it possibly can and the mistakes that it makes, it tries to remedy. He said Mr. Steinberg's statement was moderate and reasonable. It implored us to do that which we all agree with, which is to do the best that we possibly can, to ride that delicate balance between the reasons we have to go into executive session and the communities right to know and to understand. That is exactly what we are trying to do. Mr. Shubart said there are four meetings that were analyzed by Karen Grifr" the Assistant States Attorney that happened a year or two ago. The point is that Mr. Steinberg. under the freedom of information act has requested that these minutes be release to the public, except those that are exceptions. Ms. Griffin said the minutes did not meet the exception cases. The very reasonable request is to release the minutes that you are allowed to, except those that meet the exception of the Illinois Statue Act and there are very specific words about it and has nothing to do with the intention of any Aldermen. He would assume that your intentions are all good. We are asking that you release them. Aid. Rainey stated that she would like to go over those minutes before they ate released. She thought that the committee could vote to refer to Council who will in turn review those minutes word by word and release whatever can be released. Aid. Newm= agreed that it would be a very healthy exercise for the Rules committee to go over those minutes with the letter from the States Attorney. Not all agreed, including legal counsel, with the position of the States Attorney. Aid. Feldman moved for a substitute motion to refer to the City Council the minutes in question, examine them with the purpose of releasing any information within those minutes that the Council feels violates the opening meetings act. Aid. Rainey seconded. Aid. Moran opposed because he thought that all things that had to do with the hotel had been completed that were discussed. The States Attorney has ruled that they are in %iolation and that they should have not been in executive session to begin with, so it is even more odd that people would suggest that they not be released at this time. It has been founded that they are in violation of the open meetings act and everything has been completed with respect to what was discussed. They should clearly be issued to the public. Draft not droved Ald. Engelman said the substitute motion hoe Nvn nee and swonded. It is it motion thug says we the City Council should do what we are obligmcd tU do under the law, lie did not itSCM with, as strictly an interpretation of the act as the State Ancv iey is taking. But did agree that dht minutes should be released that the States Ationiev hs i ruled out. lie did refer to Aid. Nrum= who spent a considerable period of time explainit%$ his belief and thought that tie cxplaitizl accurately all Council members beliefs about what ar do and why we do what we do and atw happens and how difficult sometimes it is. We shk-.uM release these minutes so that you t:.ua look at them and I think you will get an understanding that there are sonic thin&,ems in them that ttraybc are questionable cause. Aid. Engelman said he had no Miblem with it, because in the long rtta at this point and time two years ago wasn't going to nuke any ditrer:nce. Mr. Crum stated that Corporation Counsel has ad►zsni that minutes to be released should be through our process of the City Council, minutes can only be release by the City Council is the normal process. Aid. Feldman said his motion is to have City Council look at the minutes and decided whether or not to release them. Mr. Steinberg asked if it would be done in open session. Aid. Newman said absolutely. Aid. Bernstein asked for a vote on the substitute motion. Substitute motion was carried with one nay. ADIOUMM -NT. Meeting was adjourned at 7:45 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francellno 7 Drag not aiTrov%nd MINUTES OF THE RULES COMMITI•!?E MEETING Monday, Aptil 3, 2000 6:00 Int Aldcrmanir Library Present: Aldermen Steven Bemsstein, Dennis Drummer, Gene Feldman, Ednuutd Moan. Art Newman and Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Steven Bernstein Absent: Aldermen Stephen Engelman, Joe Kent and Melissa Wynne Staff Present: Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno and Mark Franz Guest: Mimi Peterson and Paul O'Connell CALL TQ ORDER: Aid. Bernstein called the meeting to order at 6:20 p.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 7. 2000- Aid. Feldman moved to approve the minutes of February 7, 2000. Ald. Moran seconded. Motion carried. No nays. Minutes were approved. DISCUSSION ON SUBJI±CI MATTER :AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE NEGOTIATION TEAM, Aid. Bernstein said historically the committee had talked about sending NAV a letter. If the committee wants to do that, what should be included in the letter? The committee needs to discuss how to start, what to do and what process to use to engage Northwestern in these discussions. Aid. Bernstein said the advisory referendum that passed calls for City Council to negotiate with NW to get them to pay their fair share for services. That is the mission. If in fact the committee wants to do it, 5 to I the citizens have told them to do it. Aid. Feldman said a letter should be sent acknowledging the language of the referendum. it should indicate that pursuant to that language we would like to start discussions in regards to the subject matter of the referendum and other issues. One of the other issues would be mutual effort. For example: ways in which the City and the University could cooperate to help the City or the community. lie would also indicate in the letter that we would invite whatever subjects for discussions that NW would have as well. In other words, not only in response to the letter would NW say yes or no this is what they «would like to do, he would hope that NW would return a letter indicating the areas of discussion that they would like to engage in. The letter has to indicate that we might expect the atmosphere in which we can conduct these discussions to be in open session. Aid. Rainey said the letter should restate the overwhelming majority represented by the vote. She thought it was very, very significant and has felt overwhelmed by the vote. Paul O'Connell a homeowner in Evanston for 16 years offered a tool for the discussions. He said that in 1988 he founded Vena Tech, a company in the Evanston Research Park Birl Building. Vena Tech developed a medical device. For the past 6 years he has been doing contract research in the Research Park location, which was then called the basic industry research laboratory of NAVU. For many years NW offered contract research in which they would provide services in Owl mu appry vcd je personnel, lab space, etc. but would have no proprietary interest in what ►% as Vena: Tech learned about a month ago that NW has invited them to leave the research laborttc-0% XZ W has said that they will not be renting space or allowing laboratory space for anyone in the Biri facility in which the University does not have an equity interest so that they can stake a profit when these products are developed and commemializcd. N\V did invite Fend Tech to ott'cr them equity participation. Mr. O'Connell said he heard this face to face, from the Dirrctor of the Office of Strategic Initiatives and from his superior who is the Dean. Mr. O'Connell did not think that any thoughtful person believed that N\V or any other educational institution should be taxed. To the extent that NW is focusing on commercial activities and excluding companies who have done business with them as leasers of space for many years and reserving such space paid for by taxpayers for companies in which they have a stock interest, is a different matter. As Council prepares to approach the University it s=ned to him that perhaps a productive line of inquiry as to what extent are NW's activities in Evanston part of their educational mission and to what extent arc their out right commercial activities. This would be an ethically arguable subject to some kind of taxation. Aid. Rainey asked Mr. O'Connell if he was familiar with the exemption and purpertuaty atsaehed to NW's charges through state legislation? Mr. O'Connell was not. Aid. Rainey said NZ`' is exempt from the payment of property taxes regardless of the use of their property. Aid. Newman said what about leasehold? Mr. O'Connell said he has been paying leaschold taxes on that property. Aid. Rainey said that is not NW, that is the tenant. NW could set up a restaurant, bank or shoe store in a building that they own and not be taxed according to their charter. Mr. O'Connell said he was not claiming that there is a legal base for compelling NW to pay ta_Yes. But it seemed to him that in negotiations the Council ought to be willing to recognize that the University is in many ways a commercial enterprise as well as an educational institution. Aid. Feldman said we arc trying to get contributions in one form or another that would retiree and mitigate the burden of the taxpayer and accept those acts of contributions from NW. Not on the basis that the Council is implying a new tax, but on the basis of a contribution recognizing what NW owes, arc willing to give or want to give to the City of Evanston. We are not trying to change the tax laws or impose taxes where we can't. He knows that the logic of NW is that it is a non -for -profit institution and for all the money that they make through those profits or making ventures, goes to support a non -for -profit institution. Which means it goes to build classrooms, pay salaries to the teachers and all of those things. Mr. O'Connell said it goes to enhance one of the largest endowments in the world and that is a little different. Aid. Feldman said it is not much different. As long as it does not go into anyone's specific pocket and it goes to a non -for -profit institution. There is no law saying that NW can't have a 30 billion or a 100 billion -dollar endowment. Aid. Newman said he appreciated Mr. O'Connell's comments. There are people in towrt wlao F think that when ever you try to treat NW fairly, you are being divisive and by treating them fairly means that you don't allow them to take advantage of the community. But as soon as you start to do that there is a certain group of people or members of the community who are either alunmi or people who want to curry favor with them and anything you try to equalize you are accused of being divisive and every thing else. We have been told since day one that a good percentage of the Birl building was going to be paying leaschold taxes. The mission in that building has changed from time to time without us keeping up with it. The fact of the matter is it as an entity of themself and under current law do not have to pay taxes. Now if they have businesses in the BirI building or own a piece of commercial property like they have in the downtown area and N . *A Dratl that arpro•zd NW is not the tenant itself, those businesses like in the downtown atra have• to pay :t Icaschold tax. We ought to get a response from NW on how all the space i.A hein:%, used in that building and who is paying leasehold taxes and who is not and whether the amount of Icaschold m\ sover the last 5 years has increased or decreased. He thought everybody at the tahle would stmttgly favor NW paying the appropriate leasehold tares for it-; property. Mr_ O'Connell .;aid this a;L• closer to what he was trying to get at. Mr. O'Connell said he was not asking for and would not accept an intcr--tntivus, with rr:j ct to his situation, Inquiring as to the decline in Birt's lc2;ehold tax pa%nnenu might be fruitful. It seemed to him that the more compelling argument is %vhether or n..Nt it is suppowd by law that NW have profitable commercial activity going on in Evanston and that that is an additional argument in favor of their fair share. Aid. Bermstein thanked Mr. O'Connell for the toot and said the leasehold taxes are a good tool and can be explored. Mimi Peterson said NW owns many properties that individuals live in that are not in use by the University and is not Icaschold tax either. In other words University employees are living in there. Is that University use? Is there some way to raise the question of asking them to have their tenants pay the leasehold tax? Aid. Newman said not Icaschold tax, what you mean is they are living in a private residence and their residents should pay whatever the tax bill is for that house, Aid, Rainey said we have over t0,000+ voters telling us that they feel differently. That is the attitude that we ought to approach. We have a mandate to not be molded by those other old no longer valid opinions anymore. She feels so strongly, like she is representing those 10,000+ now. We need to focus on the direction that those 10,000+ gave us. Aid. Bernstein said the question is what was our mandate. Aid. Rainey said our mandate is to make this school, to get this school, to encourage this school, to somehow achieve some kind of payment, benefit, something from this University to make all of our lives easier. Aid. Feldman said it was in his original statement that the first part of the letter should indicate the language of the referendum as the basis for the initiation of talk. Then go on from there and say this is what the basis of the talk is and we have other issues. Aid. Bernstein said the dit>riculty and in conversations with people at NW, they say they are paying their fair share. Ald. Feldman said NW could make that argument to the negotiators. Aid. Drummer said that first the committee has to remember the referendum was a non-bonding referendum and does not obligate us to do anything until we accept it. It is not a mandate to us and procedurally we should first say that we accept the advisory recommendation from the citizens. He was not surprised by the vote at all. He was surprised that there were not more. But we as a Council only put the referendum on the ballot. It was not the Council's referendum it was the Fair Share's referendum. Aid. Newman said it is hard for him to really accept the argument of NW. Having lived in the City of Urbana for 5 years of his life and now knowing that the University of Illinois pays for a city of 28,000, 14 firefighters, and builds the fire stations. The University of Illinois also pays for every single child that is living in University housing that is attending public schools in that city. The University of Illinois pays for building permits, he assumes that they get their water from somebody, and their students pay the same sales tax as the students here. He thought that part of where we are is that we reject that position and the community has rejected that position. 3 x Draft not appnwed Aid. Bernstein said that was his question on the mandate. As he sees it, implicit in the vote of 10,000 was that the citizens don't believe that NW is paying their fair share. All that he was suggesting was that if NW says that they are paying their fair share, then we are at an impasse - He would like to move fom-ard see. Aid. Drummer said again, procedurally the Council should accept the referendum and accept the mandate. We should do that and get that out of the way. He moved that the Council of the Rules Committee accept the findings of the referendum. Aid. Rainey seconded. Aid. Bernstein said the motion has been moved and seconded. No vote yet because Aid. Moran stepped out of the meeting. Aid. Newman said Aid. Moran could report his vote later. :'Motion carried. No nays. Aid. Feldman said there is a motion on the floor to send a letter to NAV. Aid. Rainey said she has some ideas for the Ietter. She said lets begin by idcntiN ing every private resident off the tax rolls occupied by NW personnel or others. Because in those horses regardless of who lives in therm if they arc not paying leasehold tax, those people are receiving all of the same city services th as all residential taxpayers arc receiving. Such as garbage collections, street cieaning, fire, police s.^:rvices, etc. Let's start by identifying those and making some ballpark determination based solely on what the two houses on either side are paying for taxes. Just a guesstimate and make a tally of what that cost is to the city of just those private residences Aid. Nc%%7nan said he thought that Aid. Rainey was trying to figure out a rationale for a particular figure. Aid. Rainey said yes, just a small step in that effort. Aid. Newman said he thought that was absolutely the right wad- to go. He would like to have a map of all the property that NIV owns in the city so we can see what is on the campus and in the downtown area and where they are located. His constituents who own multiple properties in the downtown area told him that when NW is not the owner the tax bill is substantially hirer than when NW is the owner. So, we don't necessarily get back in leasehold taxes the same when NW owns property. He would also like to have an exact count of how many students out of our 73,000 people that are living in University housing that do not contribute any taxes at all. We do knox that the students that live in the community are renting so they are contributing to taxes. We can find out what the size of the population is that the rest of the community is supporting that is off the tax rolls. The letter is part of a framework of trying to find out, We also need to resolve the opening meeting issue. His view would be that these meetings have to be open session. He thinks in the interim after the letter is written we have to begin to start to figure out a rational for a figure that we arc going to ask for that we can substantiate in the negotiation. Aid. Feldman felt that the committee had to deal with the kinds of things that both Aid_ Rainey and Newman talked about_ He also knows that the Fair Share committee has a lot of issues that they want to put on the table as to what other schools are doing, etc. That is the kind of case that we have to make. But initially the letter should invite them and state in it what we want to talk about. Also indicate to thorn that in their reply they should state what they would like to put on the table as well. Then we will at least have an idea of what their interests are. Then we can adapt whatever appropriate response the Council feels is applicable to that particular kind of thing. if Gene Sunshine or anybody else has an agenda that they want as part of the discussion, we should know what it is going to be and figure out what our response is going to be to that. He thought this would be a good beginning. 4 x Draft not al pm eJ Aid. Drummer agreed that the letter initially needed to be some%%hat Leticral. He said sonic things are very obvious and if you have to state the obvious in the letter =M limply say, it is obvious that you don't pay for fire services and provably capital intpn» cnicnis within the district itself that are sokiy supported by other property luxes, ok. He %%ould tuxt gki an}• further titan t5c obvious. The letter is an introductory Ietter that is saying ok obviously %vu xrc not paying you; fair share and the referendum states that and the cilir.cns mandate ui now to act ulk)n it. And as Aid. Feldman said let NW respond to us and tell its what their mutual inters -stare in having this conversation and what arc some of the things they would wish to discuss. I?ventually we will want to know the specifics of everything. How much property do they exactly own and if all gist property was put on the lax roll, how much would it be worth, etc. But thou arc not the issues that need to go into the letter now. Ms. Peterson said a couple of months ago she gave the Council via a freedom of information act, a cost benciit analysis that was done by the previous City Manager. There %ire several different ways about going to do just that. One was a per capita basis on students. There were several very good formulas for determining just exactly what the cost is of having the University here. The reason she presented it to the Council was in hopes that it would be used at just a time like this. Aid. Drummer said we have all kinds of tools and all of those tools have to come in to play, if necessary, you will have all that at your disposal ifyou need to draw from it_ But hopefully you will determine what the fair share is. Aid. Bernstein said that historically we talked in terms of city Council entering into discussions. To him negotiations imply that we arc going to give something. Aid. Drummer asked how did the referendum read? Aid. Bernstein said negotiate. Aid. Drummer said that is what we are doing. At this time Aid. Moran returned to the meeting. Aid. Bernstein said to Aid. Moran that in his absence Aid. Drummer made a motion, which was seconded by Aid. Rainey to accept the referendum results as a mandate and to go forward. Aid. Drummer said that he thought that before we moved forward as a Council or a committee, we needed to procedurally say we accept it. Because the referendum was non-bonding to us, and we have no obligation to that. Aid. Moran said he accepted the vote. To him a mandate means that you must go and get something for us. You have an achievable goal that has been articulate and expressed in a way that is well understood. Aid. Bernstein said to Aid. Drummer that he was suggesting that there was a mandate to get NNV to pay its fair share. Implicit in that is that the voters didn't think that they were paying their fair share. Aid. Drummer said that was true and he still phrases it the same way which is that we will accept the recommendation from the referendum as a mandate for us to move forward. Aid. Bernstein said what we arc discussing now is how to move forward. Aid. Drummer said mandates do not always get carried out. We have been given a charge. Aid. Rainey said you can carry it out and do your best and failed. Aid. Drummer said but we've been sort of given a charge. If we accept that from the voters we accept that as a charge and we will act on it and we will try. Aid. Bernstein said there has been a motion and a suggestion made that we commence this process by sending a letter to NW in which we enumerate what it is we would like from them. We will be working out scenarios under which we can come up with numbers and relative ligures 0 i)rt11 not sppnm-&d that we think NW should cooperate with us financially and cooperative mcasures tier the benefit of the whole city in in -kind contributions and things of that sort. Aid. Newman said he is not interested in talking to them about in -kind contributions. Aid. Drummer said you don't want to shut yourself out because an in -kind contribution could be a v6de variety of things. Aid, Newman said if the in -kind is incredibly substantial, he would be %illing to listen to it. Aid. Rainey asked if there was inventory of NW's property west of Sheridan Road? Aid. Bernstein said there is a list of exempt properties in the Assessor's office, get the PIN number ash look it up in the sidwcll book then go and see what is on the property. Aid. Rainey asked how is land as opposed to improved property identified? For example they has given a 99-year lease and there is a building on it. Can that be sorted out? Ald. Bernstein said if the underlying land were not taxable it would be in the exempt book. But in terms of the leasehold that is a document that we would have to ask NW for. There is no record of that. But theoretically, the revenue act says that the tenant has to pay a leasehold tax and under that you go and find out what it is so that you can collect the leaseholder tax. But if it is vacant property, it is listed as vacant property non- exempt. Aid. Drummer said if we arc talking about NW's fair share of city services that they get, it is the services that we are giving them that we ought to be discussing. Do they pay far the fire services? Do they pay their fair share for the road improvements, those kind of improvements that have to be paid for by other taxpayers? If we focus on that we don't have to go out and say you have a hundred million dollars off the tax roll. We know they have 100 million dollars off the tax ro I Is. Aid. Newman said Aid. Drummer's point is a good one. But you can't preclude getting the other information from trying to calculate what they ought to be paying. Aid. Drummer said that is down the road and you will want to have all of that. Right now we obviously know the services that they get. The services that we provide them, they are not paying their fair share of those services. Ald. Bernstein said that he doesn't necessarily consider infrastructure improvement services. The paving of a street is a service. But he doesn't think they pay their fair share of that either. Aid. Drummer said that is what he is saying. He said the roads that arc paved in this district by other taxpayers are a service that they get. Aid. Newman said that NW pays for fire services. Aid. Drummer said enlighten all of us. Aid Rainey said she doesn't think it is a fair share if we are going to approach them for the services that they use, because we do not tax the citizens of this community for the services they use. Many of us have never used the fire services. We've never used the schools, we've never used the parks, and we've never used the playgrounds. You pay property taxes in order to make your community run and run well. That is what she is looking for. That is what she sees as their fair share. As a matter of fact, because they are here, their impact is much greater than a couple with a kid or 2 on a quiet street. The}' make us have additional things because of their presence. Aid. Rainey said she is saying to equate their fair share with the services they use is not a reasonable way to approach this. For example, we do not tax the Drummer family's property I man rMt aprmV,: based on the services they use. We rat you tad av wtut is necessary in order to tun this community. Yoar fair share of d= expcnsc whether }vu use those services or not. Aid. Newman said he thought that tivc should aak; them in the lettcr fora list ofpmperticc tha: they have an owmcrship interest in Eaa.titon. Ald. Drumncr said he didn't agree with that. lie said just send a cordial letter out saying pleasc a xi:pz this invitation to scat down and rttgotraM basically. And then all the other stuff will came ls:ez. Aid. Newman said that is a stratrf•. It can be done that way. Ald. Drummer said what about the fire service fee Out Aid. Newman talked about. Ald. Ne %== said the general fund uses the proputy tar for maybe 2046- Everything else in the general fund comes from other places. Even if it is 1/3. So the other stuff that Svc collect, like the water transfer that we help to fund the general fund, if it is 2 or 2 1/2 million there is water being panel for by the University. Aid. Rainey said we are paying for it too. Ald. Newman said he is not saying that, he is just trying to be fair about it. Aid. Drummer said there is no fairness there. If NW was paying their fair share we Wouldn't have all these fees that we arc putting on everybody else. Aid. Newman said he agreed With that. Aid. Bernstein said we arc going to write a letter. Aid. Feldman seconded. Motion carried. No nays. It was decided that Mr. Crum and AU Bcmtein would work: on the letter. Meeting adjourns at 7:30 pm Respectfully submitted, Darlene Francellno 7 x NOTES OF THE RULES CONINIIWFE M ETUSG lionday, March 6, 2000 6:00 P.M. Aldermanie Library Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Gene Feldman, Edmund Moran. and Art Nrm-uau Presiding: Alderman Steven Bernstein Absent: Aldermen Dennis Drummer, Stephen Engriman, Joe Krat, Ann Ralnev. and `ttlissa R�wtst Staff Present: Judith Aiello, Maureen Barry, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno, 11ary Nlerris. Carlos D. Ruiz, Ellen Szymanski and James «'olinski Guest: Robert Atkins, Beth Demes, Anne O. Earle, Thomas Earle, Judy Fiske. Mrk Imin, Jeanac Lindwall, Tom Il101ahon, James McR'Illlams, llary B..N1c«'illlnms, and Patric: Shiplets DECLARA110N OF QUORUM, A quorum was not present. CALL TO ORDER: Aid. Bernstein called the meeting to order at 6:15 p.m. i'SORT}II=AST HISTORIC PRESERVATION DISTRICT PROCESS - Aid. Bernstein suggested that the Committee discuss this issue. He thanked Ellen Szymanski who had prepared a memorandum with some ground rules. He said the Committee ryas a bit premature in as much as the Preservation Commission would not be meeting until 8:00 pm tonight. Presumably they will make a decision one w-x%• or another with regard to the proposal, after which they have 5 business days within which to send their determinanon to the Council or its agent ic, Planning Development Committee, and to everyone by regular mail in the proposed district. Aid. Feldman asked if the Council would have anything to do with this even if the Preservation Commission does nothing or does not request Council activity? In other words does the issue come to the Council in any case or only under certain circumstances? Ms. Szymanski said the Commission is under an affirmative duty in the ardinance to make a recommendation. She thinks within 35 days of the close of its hearing and within 5 days thereafter to transmit its report to either the Council's duly designated committee or to the Council itself. Aid. Newman stated that it was pointed out to him in the ordinance that the Council will only get it if the- approve it, it is not like the ?.BA or Plan Commission. A1d. Bernstein said whether we act or deny, we don't get it if the Commission acts informative and propoxs it then it comes to Council for either acceptance of the recorr-aendation or rejection of the recommendation. Ms. Szymanski said her memorandum deals with City Council level only. Mr. Crum said if the CC,1=i5:6on gives Council a recommendation to deny, he thought that the Council must act on. Ald. Bernstein said t -,: mem:) tonight says by ordinance uc have to approve a district by resolution. The Council can disapprove. Ms. S-•rnarsl:i said once the Council gets it. Aid. Bernstein said if the Commission does not act at all within the appropriate rime. it's over. Mr. McMahon said the nomination process should end. Aid. Bernstein said right, its over. If the Commission decides this evening. which theoretically is within this 35 day period and then within 5 days thereaf = th,c: tender that to Council and send their regular mail to all the people in the proposed district. He would guess that there is no proposed district and they don't have to send a notice. Aid. Newman said if the Commission fails to make its recommendation within 35 days following the close of the public hearing or if the Commission finds the denominated landmark or district and does not meet the criteria for designation, the nomination process shall end. Ald. Bernstein said 35 plus 5 days. Aid. Newman said no they have to make the recommendation within 35 days. Aid. Bernstein said but they tender it to Council thel fier. '►is. Szymanski said within 5 business days. x Aid. Bernstein asked if that was the procedure, what the law tells us to do? leis. Szynurisb said that she had berg asked to focus on the process beginning with receipt of the decision by the City Council or the committee. Price to that she said she would direct the Committee to Mr. Ruiz and Mr. Wolin -ski. Aid. Feldman said he then is assuming that the decision that Nis. Szymanski is talking about is a positive report. Ms. Szymanski said it was. Aid. Newman said the sole purpose of this matter being referred to the Planning and Deseiopment Committee wMI that it was the felling of the P&D Committee that they did not want to re -hear the nomination hearing that the Preservation Commission had. All of us arc planning on either vic%%ing the tapes or reading the complete transcript and whatever else has come in. That ran about 5 meetings. What we wanted to do was have a process setup tcc the Council. If the Commission sends out the nomination, which it seemed like they had a s7rong vote, it was 7-0 sad tonight it was continued for purposes of reviewing the actual report. Aid. Newman said the issue is how are we going to review it. The ordinance, which he thought Nis. Szymanski had pointed out, is that the Council is not required to hold a public hearing. What was talked about at P&D very bri-efly and there was a consensus that we should not re -hear the nomination. He didn't think there was anybody who disagreed with that on the Committee. One of their main reasons was that if we re -heard this, then we might as well change the ordinance and never have any of this and there would not be a reason to go to tl"x Preservation Commission. Plus the fact that it seemed to them that there has been plenty of notice of these hearings and that residents within the district had plenty of opportunity to make their comments. The Prescrvation Commission scans to have heard from everybody and also took written statements from people who weren't there. They took statements up to S minutes. So what was initially talked about and the reason it got referred was how do we set up a procedures so that all-9 members of the Council can participate. Also to set up a procedure in a way that we attempt to be fair to both the opponents and proponents. We had talked very briefly about giving the proponents as a group, whoever they wanted to set-up, some amount of time. One figure given was an hour another was 90 minutes. The same amount of time for the opponents and since then he has been told that the Preservation Commission itself would like to add 20 minutes to a 112 hour to verbally explain their report if it comes out positive. Ald. Moran asked for clarification in terms of the times that are allotted to different groups, what is the contemplated format. In other words is this going to happen at a City Council meeting, or at a special City Council meeting? Aid. Bernstein said we have to decide on that. Aid. Newman said what was contemplated was introducing the ordinance and then setting a special meeting of P&D where all 9 members would be present. Hopefully, on the some night setting a special meeting of the City Council whereas we could take up the arguments, listen to comments as P&D, with all 9 members of the Council being able to participate fully on PSD. Then go to the Council that night at a Special Nleeting. Ii would not be at a regular meeting of the Council. Aid. Moran said he would almost prefer that if we are going to have this Special meeting and that given cognizant to our municipal code in terns of one reading and then the other reading, that we have the arguments pro -con and explanatory at the introductory stage rather than the decision stage. He would for himself like to hear arguments made during the deliberative process and then think about it for a time. Aid. Newman said he thinks in this particular case because of the length of the transcript which everybody should have, that the transcript and the accompanied documents basically bring to the table %irrually every argument that any body can have about this district. It's an item that has been pretty well debated already. its been covered in the press which is very different than our typical getting it at the introductory stage where ma;,),- nobody has heard about it. He thinks the issue of rather or not we vote on it the night of the arguments is an open issue. Aid. Moran said he would not be in favor of that. His viewpoint would be everybody should come in at the time and give it their best shot and we know what everybody has to say and then when we come back to vote, the issue not be open for citizen comments. Aid. Nexm= said so what you are saying is have our mecti ,,g and ha►v Ik th sites o."e in and then M't x,otr twat night and then have it debated on the Council agenda? Aid. Moran said yes, but m-,N:di.itVg that poop14'utve had their say. Ald. Newman said what do you suggest we do? l ct's say w c lhcard this on April - and the ncm Coumcil meeting is April 10, then you have 30 speakers for whate►et rea_sAm try to get to the Council mid eitircn va ttn=ns. Aid. Feldman said he thought what Aid. Newman was askur,4 uas arc yott rr.rd► to Emit citi:rn participuz.jon comments at the beginning of a regular Council meeting tv those thins that are ether :.'tan thAt NVwife i -=? k1d. Feldman said and that they will not have an opportunity and :he Council will ►ere tv, t:-ctrict N-minicrit on thit night? Aid. Maras said yes, because we arc going to have a special ;necting. or howc►rr it's ►irsigrtmrd, and it sbmdd be made clear to everyone. Aid. Feldman said so we wilt have a %.x;ial meeting +►ith rn- citizen comments. AU Newrtlan added w'iIh all members of P&D and all members ;m the Council, Neither Attic. Feldman nor Benswim bad a problem with this suggestion. Aid. Bernstein said he did talk to Aid. Engelman and W%mnc. Ala. Engelman s.rid he w-outd like oommemmry ca one night and then another night for the vote. Aid. Wynne had no problem with that, there aac a disparity as boween Ald. Wynn and Engelman as to how much time. Aid. Bernstein called attention to Ms. Szymanski's report where it states that the Council does not have to gold sny further public hearings. Ne continued by saying to the extent that w c do, it has to be With the same fbrma.^.iiy as that which was conducted before the Preservation Commission. So there has to be an opportunity for cross-ex=inrion of witness theoretically. Ms. Szyrrtanski said the City Council, per this ordinance is not required to conduct further public hearings_ According to the terms of the ordinance it may make its decision based upon the documentary evidence and the transcripts and so forth submit to it. If, however it chooses to have public hearings to take evidence and Kasen to public comment then any evidence in public comment it takes must be a part of the Council decision. The Law Department recommends that if the Council does hold its own public hearings that the Council's public herrings be conducted with the same level of formality as conducted at the Preservation Commission level. She didn't have the transcript before her when she wrote the report so she was not able to determine whether or not the witnesses were sworn in, the level, if any of cross-examination or questioning was permitted. She is suggesting that the same level of presentation and examination that were allowed before the Commission be allowed at the Council level. So as to ©void any tendencies of giving more weight to perhaps sworn testimonies, unswom testimonies or testimony that were just taken at face value without questions being asked of the %%itncss. Aid. Newman said let's not use the term public hearings but we can still hear further comments by the proponents and opponents in terms of arguing the record that was prescnG We are not asking for any additional eviderax what we arc asking for is for people to make their arguments based upon the record. Ms. Szymanski said there is a reference to the report in one of the leading paragraphs to 295G about any comments that are made. It also says that citizen comment at City Council can be considered. Again, the Law Department is calling these factors to your attention for your consideration so that you will have as much information as we can give you for the decision process. Aid. Feldman said he would just suggest that we hold the meeting in order to elicit citizen comment, not as a public hearing. We set the time for those citizen comments in a balance way that we think are appropriate both to the issue and the evening. And as Aid. Moran indicated, to postpone decision to another meeting and the idea of citizen comment is separate and apart from public hearings. Then we can conduct it in a manner in which we ordinarily would. Set specific rules and guidelines for 1) the amount of time, and 2) perhaps the way, in which it is presented. for specific constituencies. That would be reasonable and fair and it is apt to the fact that we have access to the grand record of the testimony that we've had. I would hope that whatever constituency came before the Ccumcil, would present very direct pointed, powerful summaries of all of the testimonies, the most cogent aspects of their argument would be brought to bear during that particular time. Mr. McMahon said he would like to be sure that members of the Council understood that the hearings held before the Commission was limited. The ordinance specifically says the Commission shall limit their consideration to the following criteria and the criteria's are all related specifically to Presmation. Not to the question of whether the people in the district want this deal? They needed it, the more politically oriented moues, which we ha-vt a vcarys believed from the very beginning. He continued saying that AU Newman and seine P&D that were both at the meeting and it was understood that the Commission had a certain &ty to perfonn Anti t.N= the Council would look at broader issues. We feel those broader issues need to be locked at, this isn't mer-,'ti 1 summation of what happened before the Preservation. Aid. Feldman said he unders.00d. AU Newman said it scerns that we have 3 agreements thus far I) is that we will have one night for zit:.:= curmment and another night for decision: 2) the special meeting will be for a it members of the Council and that is where vm will take the citizen comments at P&D; 3) we have an agrcemenz that except for this well advertised me=+g ghat we arc not going to have any citizen comment on this issue during ors regular Council meetings. We arr z:�rg as encourage everybody who wants to comment on this to do it at t`is meeting. Aid. Newman suggested we give one half hour to the Commissico to present its report at the first meec^g. 'fb.^n give the proponents and the opponents 90 minutes each. He wot:,*d like to ask that w hoevcr goes first, whether they want to rebuttal. He would assume that the proponents would go first. We should do it the exact way t: w it is done in the applets courts or at a trial. For example, in a criminal case the prosecutor will go for 90 minutes_ A civil case, the plaintiff does his closing arguments then the opponent gets the same amount of time or a little less, b will be like they both get the same amount of time. The responder gets to say whatever he wants and then the origins] arguer gets to only comment bricfly on the arguments of the responding party in rebuttal. But he would say 90 minutes both sides and however they want to divide up their time_ Aid. Moran said he would not do this like a jury trial. He doesn't see it as like a lawsuit. He said Mr. Vest's letter raised an issue that he hadn't focused on, but it makes sense. Therr may be individual property owners who might come in and have a specific thing that they want to say about their lot, house or whatever it is. That makes it difficult for them and for him in terms of listening to what their gsnicular concerns are. He was wondering if there was some way that we could devise the system. In the hearings has there been an effort to sort of encom-'Lass some of the subjects that were the key issues in some compact form? Mr. McMahon said he thought that could be done, that so called organized opposition, which is the terra d'sat was used during the proceedings, can work with time limits. He thought that it is very difficult to put those E=isations on citizens who feel that their rights arc being taken away. He is rot advocating anything, he is just sayi:; that there are a very substantial number of people. Over 300 people who have signed against this and w•c don't carrol whether they are going to want to stand up and say it. We can certainly as an organized group function wit -bin time limits. All though he will say that the way you have set this up her- is very much, you know, proponents get 30 minutes, because the Commission, we are assuming is going to pass this, as you said they have already « wd 7-0, so they are going to spend one half hour. Then the proponents are going to spend another hour, then the opr--V.%rnts get their time and then again the proponents, so it is 3 proponent and I opponent. So he i as a feeling that's au very comfortable for people. Aid. Newman said what would you suggest to equalize it? Mr. McMahon said we as the organized opposition, Evanstonians for Responsible Preservation, not North -a est_-m, and frankly feel that NW is part of the problem. So for them to be Iumped with NW is really not fair. He thought hvanstonians for Responsible Preservation could work with the kind of procedures that have been set up. Let's just do this once, lets not have it repetitious, and lets not have people go over and over. It seemed to him that t eey would be better offsetting aside one night for the proponents and one nigh: for the opponents, keep it short and [el it go at that. But to force them into a time slot here, where you will have people come and say they want to speaL h.-st what are you going to do about that. Aid. Bernstein asked if Mr. McMahon was suggesting any limitation cc cirher of those two nights? Mr. McMahon said sure, he thought there could be a time limit where the meeting ens 1'. 10.00 p.m. Aid. Feldman said what if at I0:00 somebody has not spoken? Mr. McMahon said I think we;=mn control the so call -organized oppositions and we can cut ourselves down to 90 minutes. After much discussion Aid. Newman said he thought that they ought to make a suggestion for the March [_ CzLncil meeting for the whole Council. The suggestion being that there be 2 nights. One nigh: for comments and cc= =, ht far vote. We strongly encourage every member of Council to attend the comment night, which would be s rl P&D meeting. We encourage other members of Council that arc not on P&D to come ask question and p.,r,3 ,, any way they want. Try and complete the comments that night in an organized strucnt.-c that gives a half-hctz =:, the Commission and 90 minutes each to the proponents and the i., poncnts. We N itl he asking them to act in pN%! tv:b and for both sides to divide their time anyway they want. Putt; meeting a ill start .at 6:00 p.m. and then aster �ia,c we open it up first to people for comment that did not have the vFy,arrunity to partiv it ate. Aid. Feldman raid h ft s�,," for a 12:00 adjournment, that will give us 6 hours_ Aid. Newtnnan said and if we feel at 12.00 that %he issue can not be properly decided unless we extend, then tisc "n decide to catena_ Aid. Newman said for example it will be introduced on March. 13, thcn sontctintr after March 13 -%N a u ill has,&a Special meeting of P&D for the entire Council for the commcim portion, and then after the comment night t".a.- tear will be on a regular Council night. Mr. Crum asked if the Committee would accept written testimi-rry up until the Friday before the night of the %=e? Aid. Ne%rman said yes and would encourage people to get them in as soon as possible. Aid. Newman said they could still send more stuff that night, it is open until we vote. Aid. Bernstein said it seemed clearly that we have a Special P&D meeting on April 13. To which we invite d= entire Council as a P&D Committee meeting with everyone there. We encourage everyone on the Council to resd all the transcripts, view all the tapes and or both. We encourajr. the people in the community to send us anything they have, all before. Then we have a night meeting to commea:c at or about 6:00 pm, the form to be determined. The Commission gives us its vote and the reasons for the vote. Subsequently, he didn't know if it was opposition or proponents first or whatever. We have a fine amount of time fec each side, following which we have small commentary from anybody who wants open their mouth and say anything. Aid. Newman said no with priority to property owners. Aid. Feldman said the Council will have to decide, but he really would like to recommend a forum. Which is one hour for the proponents, 90 minutes for the opponents and one half hour for the rebuttal for the proponents followed by an open citizen comment for those people who have herctofecc not had an opportunity. Aid. Bernstein said it is also cognizance to the fact that we don't have to provide any hearing whatsoever. Aid. Newman said this is not a hearing, this is commentary. Aid. Feld:rnan said citizen comments. Aid. Bernstein said do we propose sworn commentary to address the Council's concern. Aid. Feldman said no, he didn't think so. Then we would have to have cross-examination? Aid. Bernstein said not necessarily. Aid. Feldman said no and the chair would have the right to call on people to spt=L Aid. Bernstein said ok we would make the informal suggestion to the Council as a whole. The Committee suggested a tentative date of April 13 for Council-s approval for the public comments to be held in Council Chamber. Aid. Bernstein asked the City Manager if he could put this on the agenda for March 13'b and then they would make an informal recommendation to Council. The Gay Manager said yes. The committee also discussed May 8 as being the decision night. Ar IOTIRN1r1FNTt The meeting adjourned at 7:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Darlene 1'ranceitno 5 DkkFT N'OT APPROVED MINUTES OF THE RULES C011MMEE MEETING Monday. February 7.2000 ta:0011.m. Aldermanii Library Present: Aldermen Steven Bernstein, Dennis Drummer, Stephen Engelman, Cent Feumon, Joe Kent Edmund Moran, Art ticwman and Ann Rainey Presiding: Alderman Steven Bernstein Absent: Alderman Melim Wynne Staff Present: Judith Aiello, Roger Crum, Darlene Francellno, Atari: Franz CALL. TQ ORD .R: Aid. Bernstein called the meeting to order 2t 6:20 p.m. APPROVAL. OF MINUTES OF DECEMBU 6. 19": Ald. Feldman moved to approve the minutes of December 6, 1999. Aid. Newman seconded. Motion carried. No nays. Minutes were approved. ENFORCEMENT OF RU_LF. 5.2: Aid. Bernstein asked Aid. Newman if his concern was that there be publications of vacancies? Aid. Newman Said his concern was that there is a rule and the rule should be applied. Aid. Bernstein asked if he wanted w enforce the rule? Aid. Newman said yes. Aid. Feldman said there is only one way to do that and That is that the City Manager finds out all of the vacancies and advertises them. Aid. Newman added that they should be advertised on cable and our website if we ever get one. Aid. Feldman asked Mr. Crum if that would be a problem. Mr. Crum said no just be careful, the Mayor has a responsibility of keeping track of this and where they should be published. Aid. Rainey agreed. Aid. Bernstein said it's the Mayor that decides the appropriateness of the publication_ Aid. Feldman said is the Mayor going to do it? Aid. Rainey said if not, then she is in violation of the rule. Aid. Bernstein said the Mayor has the responsibility of determining where publications should be trade. Aid. Newman said he didn't see that rule as secluding, he saw that portion of the rule as the Mayor selecting the publication. He didn't think there was a problem with the City Manager and some other member of the staff assisting the Mayor. He had no problem if the Mayor picked the publication. We said we were going to do this and it ought to be done and advertised on cable. The main reason is that you've got to reach out to get people and it shouldn't just be a friendship situation. Aid. Bernstein asked when the Mayor deems something appropriate who does she designate as a person to get things accomplished? She has a secretary the City Manager and we now all have Mark Franz. Aid. Bernstein took a moment to introduce Mark Franz, the new Assistant to the City Manager. Aid. Bernstein said what we could do is just indicate to the Mayor that it is her responsibility to designate whomever, too just get the word out. Aid. Rainey said yes, just get it done. Aid. Feldman said no, what he reads this as is that the Mayor will decided wh;ch general circulation/communications within the community that is appropriate. Once that happens the Mayor's obligation is done according to this and then somebody else has to help out. We don't expect her to call up and place the advertisement. It would seem to him tha: there should be a person in place that takes care of this. Aid. Rainey asked Ms. Franceilno to help them out. Ms. Francellno said when Michael Guttman was here that he took responsibility for publicizing the vacancies. Mr. Crum asked who keeps track of the vacancies? -hts. Francellno said the Mayor keeps track of the vacancies and she is her back up person. Mr. Crum said he has no trouble publishing them, but he doesn't keep tick of the vacancies. Ms. Francellno said she would do that. Aid. Bernstein asked that a list of the corrmission vacancies be provided for them. Aid Newman said ow was provided last summer. Aid. Bernstein said if they had an updated list then if we they knew people that might be appropriate for those committees they could make suggestions. Ms. Francellno said she could provide a list of • ' I)Kk r NOT APPROVED vacancies. Mr. Crum said Mr. Franz could work %ith his. Francellno. Mr. Franz said h: uxmtd. Aid. FeIdrrran said there should be a vehicle for advertisemcnt. Selec: the advertisement once including 6t rabtc channel then k-mce that has occurred then that's what the Mayor has done then all of the vacancies; are autcicnancslly placed in dense publications. Not each week as one comes up and once that has been established the minute a %-acanev comta up the vacancy is there and ready for publication on all a, --them automatically. Aid. Engelman asked how often should these pub6zations nun, until they ar: filled or jus: once" Aid. Feldman said until they are filled. They could go for 6 months without being filled. Aid_ Engelman as3-ed if when you say filled do we mean until the Mayor has selected someone that she is going to place? Aid. Feldrr-= said absolutely. Aid. Moran asked even if there are applicants for it on Me? Aid. Feldman said of course. AU Bernstein said yes that is the Mayor's call. Aid. Newman said he thinks it should be advertised whether there are applicants or not. Aid. Feldman agreed and said what if there are two applicants that have been sitting in a file for a year that the 6layor. doesn't want to choose. Aid. Newman moved that we ask the Mayor to woc'k with the Aidermanic Secretary and the City Manager to regularly publish no less than quarterly all the va=-scies on the Boards and Commissions_ Aid_ Rainey seconded Aid. Bernstein asked if there was any discussion. Aid. Engelman said we are not making this a rule are we? Ald Newman said it is a rule. Aid. Bernstein said it is a.'rcady a rule, the question is how do we go about implementing the rule. Aid. Engelman said he thought that was what the rule said. Aid. Rainey said we are just reminding the Mayor. Aid. Engelman said he has no problem rettrinding the Mayor, he just didn't think that there should be any implication that the Mayor had done anything wrong. Aid. Rainey said she thinks when;ir. Guttman left some things fcIl through the cracks. Aid. Newman said the rule doesn't say it is up to the Mayor. The rule just asks for the Mayor to pick the publication. Aid. Engelman said that the Mayor deems appropriate. The Mayor may deem appropriate no publication. Aid. Feldman said it doesn't say that. Aid. Engelman said he knows that it doesn't say that. It doesn't say that it must be published in any particular newspaper. It only says those publications that she may deem appropriate. Publication could be walking out in the hall and saying "hear ye hear ye". Aid. Feldman said it could be. Aid. Newman said that interpretation assumes that someone is working in bad faith. He assumed that we are all working in good faith. Aid. Engeeman said that interpretation assumes that we are all working in good faith. AId. Newman said the purpose of the rule is to get them advertised and give the Mayor discretion. Aid. Feldman said the fact that we arc talking about it and it hasn't happened, we are trying to fix it. Aid. Engleman said he has no problem with the concept as long as there is an understanding that nobody is implying that somebody intentionally did something wrong. Aid. Bernstein said he didn't get that implication at all. The Mayor can choose the publica:,on and in addition to whichever one she chooses it will be placed on cable. Aid. Newman said we would ask that the Mayor work with Ms, Franecllno and the City Manager and publish vizaricies no less than quarterly. Aid. Bcrostein said the motion is on the floor and has been seconded and further discussed. Aid. Moran asked for clarification on the motion. Aid. Bernstein said the motion basically is an implementation ofrule 5.2. Specifically, maybe its an advisory to the Mayor to please work with leis. Francclino and Mr. Franz or whomever the City Manager drsigmtes to make sure that the message gets out. Aid. Engelman said the motion was to publish quarterly whatever vacancies there are. Aid. Newman said the motion was to the Mayor to uork with the Aldermanic Secretary and the City Manager to insure that the vacancies are published in whatever paper she picks no less than, quarterly. Aid. Bernstein said we arc adding something. Aid. Newman said there is noshing being added. Aid. Bernstein said its and advisor there is something added, basically the implementation. Aid. Newman said he was not adding a rule on behalf of the committee. Aid. Bernstein said he understood that is why it is an advisory, we are just askiz g her, we can give her the consent of the Council. Aid. Kent said advisory was fine. He wanted to whether or not there should be something in addition as far as what the process is for getting an application because most people don't know. Because you want to be on the Recreation Board doesn't mean that you are going to get on that Board. It should ask your fern, secorA and third choices. Then depending on what the Mayor wants or what vacancy comes up you might not get your first choice, you might get your second choice. Aid. Engelman said he appreciated what Aid. Kent said and he thinks that Aid. Kent is 10014 J P1:AF1' NOr.a1 APPROVED right. But he would assume that the Mayor will deterntine the best N%iv she can tart vut the %%xlnl as to %%bere rya. -re is a vacancy and how do you go about applying because this is her job. Aid. Moran said he would probably vote no. He was completely supportive of all the concrl4s to publish quarterly or whatever appropriate interval people believed were coo e t. Why he %.veld vote no wa; that he was sure that the Mayor knew that she could work with Ms. Francellno. He was sure tha: the Mayor wuis xurk with the City Manager and the Assistant to the City Manager and as a matter of princilml tv thought it Nvis not righr, for the Rules Committee to take formal action to the effect that the Mayor should do these things. He hoped the committee understood the sense of what he was saying. He was in favor of all of it. but was not going to subsmbe to sending some note to the Mayor that she should do that, he thought that she understood that those am the people that she interfaces with to accomplish this task, which he is in favor of. Aid. Bernstein said the minutes would be sufficient. What he thought the import of this particular agends iu= was just to make a suggestion. It wasn't raised to the status of a new rule compelling the Mayor to do something. Basically if the consensus of the Council is that the Mayor should publish quarterly, the minutes would sufiieieatly. advise her of that. He didn't know that we necessarily had to send her a note. Atd. Newman said in terms of sending her a note, we haven't really had regular advertising for 3 years. Which means that we've had a rule that has just been sitting here and nothing being done. To that extent he thought that we have missed the opportunity to bring people into the process or at least tried for 3 years. So if he heard or if somebody else at the table heard that there was going to be some reach out thing going on in compliance with the rule, the motion was not necessary. But he hadn't heard that. Aid. Newman said there was a purpose behind this rule. There was a change of the rules from the past and it was because we hadn't been advertising these positions. The rule was passed and we still aren't advertising. So the purpose of the rule is to gain enforcement. Ald. Engelman said advertising may not be the best way to reach out, in fact in his experience the Kest way to reach out was when somebody goes out and started thinking about who would be a good person for this or that. Whether it was an appointee to a Board or Commission or a developer for a project for the City or whatever, who would be a good person and having someone actually going out and talking to them. Aid. Feldman said the person that should go out and talk to them would be the Mayor since she is the one who appoints them. Aid. Engelman said and one of the things unbearably, and he had heard from the Mayor on this, was that there was difficulty getting people to express an interest. Aid. Feldman said and one of the reasons was that people didn't know the things that were available, it's a circular argument. Aid. Newman said they had advertised for the Research Park Board about 4 or 5 years ago and received 27 applicants and the Mayor appointed the same 3 people anyway. Aid. Feldman said if you get I GO people the chances are you are going to get 3 good ones. Aid. Bernstein said his feeling was that if you want to compel then you need another rule. What we are asking for is to enforce the rule. Aid. Newman said he didn't think we were there yet. Aid. Bernstein said then what we are discussing is enforcement of rule 5.2. Aid. Bernstein said a motion had been made that we as an advisory message to the Mayor that we publish not less than quarterly in whatever magazines or vessel she deems appropriate plus the cable. Aid. Moran suggested that there be some communication from the Rules Committee to the Mayor, it could be a letter from Aid. Bernstein as the chairman of the committee. Saying that the Rules Committee has articulated a desire that there be active publications of openings for boards and commission or something of that affect. Aid. Engleman asked if that was a substitute motion. Aid. Moran said it was not, he didn't want it to be a motion. Aid. Engelman accepted that. Aid. Rainey said we just want to send a message. Aid. Newman said that Aid. Bernstein could talk to the Mayor about the jest of this consensus. Aid. Bernstein said fine that he would talk to the ;Mayor. ESTABLISH TEAM TO DISCUSS MUNICIPAL CONERNS WITH NORTHW STERN OIV RSITY. Aid. Bernstein said the referendum was coming close and he figured the Committee could commence discussion about how to establish a committee to talk with NW. And what the Committee is going to empower this committee to do or not to do in conversation with NW. it is early and we may never come to pass if the referendum fails. He was guessing that the committee didn't have to establish a committee. But if the referendum passes then the committee would have as an advisory referendum, the citizens telling us to go ahead and negotiate with NW for them to pay their fair share. Aid. Bernstein opened the floor for discussion. DRAFT NOT APPROVED Ald. Drummer said he thought it was the other way around that even though the referendum was on the ballots and we knew it was going on but we thought that we should begin w talk anyway. AI& Newman said he though that was somewhat accurate. However, he spoke to the Chair of the Rules Committee and had another reference on this very subject that didn't get on the agenda tonight that the Chair told him was part of this item. Which is if there is an issue to discuss whether this committee is going to discuss rcming. Aid. Newrmmn continued that it would be his position that any inning discussions with the University ought tit.) be open to the public meetings act and we ought to be neighbors who can go to them. If the University is interested in talking zoning the first thing that we need to do is to send them a letter and see what they want to discuss. Aid. Newman said he didn't know if we knew wW NW wanted to discuss yet and he thought the Council thought that i!`-WU knew part of what we want to discuss. Aid. Newman would Kant to send NIYU a letter or otherwise, not enopower this committee to discuss zoning unless there is compliance with the open meeting act. Aid. Rainey asked if Aid. Newman was suggesting that the corn--nittee discussing another matter other than zoning would not be conducting open meetings? Aid. Newman said if thin was a parcel of real estate that we were talking about transferring.... Aid. Rainey said she was talking about 991ti of the discussions with NW over contributions in lieu of taxes, she didn't see involving the transfer of a piece of real estate. And if those meetings are going to be in Executive Session, under what piece of legislation are those meetings in Executive Session. Aid. Newman said didn't know if that was N W's view of negotiating. Aid. Rainey said she was asking Aid. Newman's view and the rest of this committee's view. Aid. Moran responded the majori:}, of the quorum. Aid. Feldman asked what was the majority of the quorum? Aid. Moran thought the quorum was 3. Aid. Newman thought it was A and Aid. Engelman thought is was 6. Aid. Drummer asked if the establishment of the committee contingent on whether or not a referendum passes? Aid. Bernstein said the question with respect to whether we arc going to form the committee at all. Is it dependent on whether the referendum passes? If in fact that we decide, as AI(. Drummer remembers that we did, that we are going to form the committee anyway, then we move along to what it is and how many numbers and things of that sort. Aid. Drummer said he didn't have any problem with it either way it goes he just remembered what the committee talked about. Aid. Engleman and Aid. Rainey also remembered that. Aid. Bernstein said ok so we are going to establish a committee to have discussions with NW whether or not the referendum passes. Aid. Rainey said our positions have been diminished. Aid. Bernstein said ok. Aid. Bernstein said for purposes of a quorum aren't we 10? Aid. Engleman said the Rules Committee is the Committee that is doing this and the Rules Committee consist of 9 people and the quorum of the Rules Committee is 5 and the majority of the quorum is 3. Aid. Newman said this is not a negotiating team for the Rules Committee. It is a negotiating team for the City Council. Aid. Moran said he thought the open meetings act is a majority of 9. Aid. Newman said a quorum of the City Council is 6. Aid. Bernstein said he would ask Hub Hill, Corporation Counsel specifically we can and can't do with respect to open meetings. Aid. Feldman said it is very difficult for him to believe that these are negotiations because of the kinds of issues that are being raised. The way he understood it was it was not just a question of what form the payments in lieu of taxes is going to take. It is not the different envelopes that we are going to get from them_ It is a question of give and take and what NW expects in return. That is what he has heard. NW then indicated that there were things that they have on the table that they want. To him all the committee could do was just explore and come back to this Council as to what they wanted. He didn't see a committee making any kind of deals. How could a committee make any kind of deals, that's all the committee would be is an agent of this body and the Council, no negotiations and then come back with a pre -formed agreement then say do you want to ok it. He could not imagine the committee doing that. Aid. Newman said that is why he thought the committee needed to communicate with the University. He agreed that our meetings should be subject to the open meeting act. He thought that NW ought to be informed of that in a letter and that we ought to hear what issues they are interested in negotiating so that we can give our negotiators some authority. Otherwise they don't have any authority. Aid. Feldman said he remembered the charge of the committee that met with NW some 8 years ago, there was nothing on the table that was what the University wanted. The whole discussion was what they were going to contribute. It was not a question of what they were going to get in return, it was a question of how they could contribute to the fiscal welfare of this community. Whether it was by giving free legal advice or having Kellogg DRAFT NOT APPROVED come in and reorganize our business plans or whatever it eras_ Aid. Englrman said they didn't do that did thy"' Aid Feldman said they did nothing, not contribute mocvy for fire servicex which is what the thnist of the discussions were about. There were no negotiations as to vvhat we were %wing to give them in rctum, There vi-is nothing like that, it was just the form in which `AV coutJ feel comfortable in doing that. So that kind of issue is much different than the atmosphere that's around today. lie would like to find out what they are interested in. Thhey know what we are interested in; he doesn't know what dhcy are interested in. N%V knows that wr %vant money, wiw do they want. And he would like to find out. let them say it out loud in public. Ald. Newman said he would like to include both hospitals also. He didn't think that the University ought to be singled out. Aid. Rainey said let us take one at a time though. Aid. Newman said Evanston Hospital is a very powerful non -for -profit also and he is just throwing that out there he thinks it is an easier discussion to have wide NW when they are not being singled out. They have complained about that all of the time in his experience. Aid. Bernstein asked if there was further discussion Aid_ Newman moved that a letter be written to NW. Aid. Bernstein said a letter to NW to find out what it is they would like to discuss if anything? Aid. Feldman said he would like to see that and then as soon as they get that and know what form those discussions are going to take we can talk about a committee or a group of representatives that would represent the Council, certainly in its initial stages. Aid. Bernstein said he would like input for the letter. Ald- Newman said that we should indicate that the open meeting provisions are going to have to apply to these meetings. Aid. Bernstein said he would check with Mr.10 on that. Aid. Drummer asked how did you negotiate the transfer of land? Was that open meetings? Aid. Newman said no. Aid. Engelman said it was 3 people. The meeting where Aid, Bernstein was invited he didn't show up because it would have violated the open meetings act. Aid. Newman said we were discussing real estate and the development exchanges of parcels so that is how it came in. Aid. Engelman said that's why it could be done in Executive Session but we never convene into open sessiott_ The open meetings act would have required having -t Aldermen being there for them to convene into executive session but there wasn't a majority of a quorum at the time. Aid. Bernstein said is there a consensus with respect to writing a letter to NW. Aid. Engelman said no, he thinks you really should get your act together before you start writing letters and he hasn't heard what it is that we are planning on trying to do, Somebody has said they thought we would like to hear what NW wants. Want in exchange for what? He heard at least one person say that they want other people at the table, the hospitals. Before we start formerly communicating with a quote adversary or with whatever, an entity that we are seeking to get something from, we ought to at least understand the playing field that we are on. Aid. Bernstein said that was his sense of starting discussions tonight. That is not at all unreasonable. Aid. Newman said sense we are about to go to the budget meeting that we are tabling the subject since we don't have our act together. Ald. Feldman said he thought they should put it on the next Rules Committee discussion to discuss getting our act together. Aid. Bernstein said we could talk both the perimeters, because they may well ask what we want. At the same time we may have to exchange letters. He doesn't know what we want other than money or in -kind services or something. ADJOURN MUT- Meeting adjourned at 6:50 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, Darlene Francellno